What Does 'Per cm' Mean in Chemistry and How is it Used in Spectroscopy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the meaning and application of the "per cm" (cm-1) unit in chemistry, particularly in the context of spectroscopy. Participants explore its usage in relation to frequency and wavelength, as well as the historical context of these units.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about the "per cm" unit and its application in spectroscopy, particularly in converting between units like THz and cm-1.
  • Others argue that wavenumber (cm-1) is advantageous for optical and infrared spectroscopy because it provides more manageable numerical values compared to Hz.
  • A participant questions whether cm-1 indicates cycles per centimeter and suggests consulting a handbook or textbook for clarification.
  • There is a discussion about the appropriateness of using cm versus meters for wavelength measurements, with some suggesting that using meters is less intuitive for light wavelengths.
  • One participant notes that the historical context of using cm-1 dates back to the 1930s when CGS units were prevalent.
  • Another participant clarifies that cm-1 represents the inverse of wavelength rather than frequency, emphasizing the distinction between these concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the utility of cm-1 in spectroscopy but express differing views on its conceptual clarity and the rationale behind its use. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best unit for representing wavelengths in spectroscopy.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the conversion between different units and the implications of using cm-1 versus other units like Hz or meters. The historical context of unit usage is also noted but not fully explored.

n0_3sc
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I don't understand "per cm"

Chemists seem to use the "per cm" (cm^{-1}) scale for spectroscopy. I'm use to dealing with THz.
Can someone please point me to a resource or explain where per cm is used and how to convert between different common units??
I know you just take the wavelength, put in cm form and inverse - but I don't think its as simple as that for bandwidths...
 
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Chemist use wavenumber (per cm) for frequency - you have to get used to it.
The main advantage is that for most optical-ir you have a convenient size number to deal with rather than having 10^12 Hz type units.

It makes less sense for bandwidths but it's still the same number of Hz.
 
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Does the cm to the negative one indicate wavenumber? Would this be "cycles per centimeter"? ...can't remember too well myself. Check a handbook or an analytical chemistry textbook.
 
mgb_phys said:
Chemist use wavenumber (per cm) for frequency - you have to get used to it.
The main advantage is that for most optical-ir you have a convenient size number to deal with rather than having 10^12 Hz type units.

It makes less sense for bandwidths but it's still the same number of Hz.

Ok so for bandwidths i can get \Delta f but NOT \Delta \lambda?

Anyone know where these units started from? Even for IR the numbers are still fine,
eg. 1550nm corresponds to ~2Thz.
THAT IS A MUCH NICER looking number than: 6452cm^-1.

I mean "cm"?? C'mon, surely there is a better explanation. - I just don't like getting use to weird units.
 
It started in the 30s when CGS rather than MKS was used.
Frequency makes more sense if you are talking about bonds resonating, wavelength makes more sense when talking about widths of spectra.
Really, using metres ( a fraction of the Earth's circumference) makes no more sense when talking about wavelegths of light!

ps. The units are much worse in astronomy.
 
mgb_phys said:
Really, using metres ( a fraction of the Earth's circumference) makes no more sense when talking about wavelegths of light!

ps. The units are much worse in astronomy.

Good point...Now I need to spend time getting use to relative numbers in per cm :rolleyes:
 
cm -1 is used for infrared spectroscopy. it indicates the inverse of frequency.
 
ummmmmmm... its actually the inverse of wavelength, NOT frequency; hence the units of cm^-1 and not s.

Wavenumber is used simply because, as other have said, the numbers turn out pretty nice (especially for the IR region).
 

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