What evidence do we have for the existence of electron clouds?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of electron clouds within atoms, specifically exploring the nature of electron behavior as standing waves and the implications of classical electrostatics on their boundaries. Participants engage in both theoretical and conceptual aspects, touching on mathematical representations and experimental evidence.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant introduces the idea of electrons as standing waves and questions what defines the boundaries of these waves within an atom, suggesting classical electrostatic attraction as a possible factor.
  • Another participant clarifies that electrons do not have sharp boundaries and discusses the need for understanding the potential in which the electron exists, referencing the infinite square well as a classical example.
  • There is a mention of the probability distribution of bound electrons, with one participant describing it as resembling a normal distribution curve, while noting that it approaches zero at the nucleus and fades to zero at infinity.
  • One participant distinguishes between probability distribution and radial probability distribution, explaining how the latter is derived and its implications for understanding electron behavior at different radii.
  • Another participant asserts that the term 'electron cloud' refers to the probability distribution, which they claim is measured through various experimental methods, including X-ray crystallography and STM imaging.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of electron boundaries and the interpretation of probability distributions. While some agree on the general behavior of electrons as described by probability distributions, there is no consensus on the specifics of their boundaries or the extent of experimental evidence supporting the concept of electron clouds.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of defining electron boundaries and the dependence on the potential involved. There are unresolved aspects regarding the mathematical descriptions and the interpretations of probability distributions, particularly in relation to the behavior of electrons at the nucleus and at infinity.

wil3
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Hello. I have recently been introduced to the concept of electrons as standing waves around the atomic nucleus. The explanation I read used the simulation of "a particle in a tube" to give a monodimensional interpretation of how the standing wave behaves.

Within an atom, what serves as the "boundaries" for the electron-wave? Is it purely classical electrostatic attraction to the nucleus?

Any accompanying calc-1 level math describing how classical electrostatics shapes these bounds would be very much appreciated.

Thank you in advance for any replies.
 
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Within an atom, an electron doesn't have sharp bounds. To find the wave solutions to any electron in a ______, you need to know the potential its in. One of the classical examples is an 'infinite square well in 1d.' In this case, there is a region of zero potential, bordered by two regions of infinite potential ---> this leads to a very well bounded electron.

Generally, for an atom, people describe the situation (simplified) by a potential resulting solely from electrostatic interactions, i.e. the potential 'U'
<br /> U \propto \frac{1}{r}<br />
and has no clear boundary. The result is that the probability distribution for the electron gradually falls off with increasing distance from the atom's nucleus.
 
yes, the probability distribution of a bound electron looks like a normal distribution curve squished off to the left and peaking at distance = r for that energy level. I think it's zero at the nucleus and probability for radius much below the first energy band...

The probability for such a bound electron fades to zero at infinity while a free actually electron has a finite probability of being found at infinity...but I don't think we have found any there yet! (a poor joke)

I guess we learn about "orbits" with radii like planets, then electron clouds and also electron probability distributions...don't believe ANY of those have been observed...here's a computed graphic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_cloud
 
Last edited:
Naty1 said:
yes, the probability distribution of a bound electron looks like a normal distribution curve squished off to the left and peaking at distance = r for that energy level. I think it's zero at the nucleus and probability for radius much below the first energy band...

No, the radial probability distribution looks like that. It's not the same thing as the probability distribution, which is |psi|^2 (for a single electron). The radial distribution is what you get if you take the probability at radius r and integrate over the surface of the sphere with that radius. Since a sphere with zero radius has zero surface area, it's zero at r=0. But the 1s (hydrogen ground state) orbital actually has its maximum at r = 0.

In other words, the probability that the electron is in an infinitesimal volume element at (r, theta, omega) should not be confused with the total probability of the electron being at any point with a given radius.
I guess we learn about "orbits" with radii like planets, then electron clouds and also electron probability distributions...don't believe ANY of those have been observed

When we say 'electron cloud' then what we mean is the probability distribution. Which is directly measured all the time in more ways than I could enumerate. X-ray crystallography, STM imaging, even basic chemistry is indirect evidence.
 

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