What exactly are waves and how do they look?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of waves, particularly in the context of sound waves and quantum mechanics. Participants explore the conceptual understanding of waves as disturbances in various fields and how this relates to particles like electrons being described as waves. The conversation includes analogies, mathematical representations, and the implications of probability amplitudes in quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe waves as disturbances in fields, with sound waves affecting air pressure and water waves affecting surface topography.
  • One participant notes that in quantum mechanics, the wave represents the probability amplitude for locating a particle, suggesting a visual analogy to sound waves.
  • Another participant clarifies that probability amplitude differs from probability distribution, providing a mathematical expression for a particle's wave function.
  • A participant expresses difficulty understanding the mathematical concepts and requests simpler explanations.
  • One participant challenges the notion of particles being waves, suggesting it is a simplification for beginners and indicating that this understanding may evolve with further study in quantum mechanics.
  • A visual analogy of a flying harmonic oscillator is introduced to help conceptualize wave behavior in various physical systems.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of waves in quantum mechanics and the appropriateness of analogies used to describe them. There is no consensus on the best way to conceptualize the relationship between particles and waves.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve complex mathematical representations that may not be accessible to all participants, leading to requests for simpler explanations. The conversation also highlights the evolving understanding of wave-particle duality in quantum mechanics.

Phys12
Messages
351
Reaction score
42
Now, whenever I asked this question, my teachers either responded with a diagram of a wave like this (psst! it doesn't move in real life, I didn't go to Hogwarts.):

300px-Standing_wave.gif

or often referred to the analogy of water waves (when you drop something in water, the wave goes outward).

But when we talk about a particle, like an electron, being a wave, or sound waves, what exactly does that mean? Sound waves, as far as know, compress and contract air particles and we represent that contraction and compression via waves-- wherever compression is high, we have the wave more in the negative axis (or any other convention that we might choose). Is this correct?

What about a particle being a wave? Neither is there a sea of particles which bounce in their respective places which gives us the graph of a wave, nor are electrons emitted out of their orbits via which, we'd measure the frequency of their emission and represent it in a graph. So, what exactly does it mean for a particle being a wave, or for that matter, sound?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
A wave is a disturbance in some field, and a field can be any function of position and time coordinates. Sound waves are a disturbance in the air pressure field, and waves on water are disturbances of the surface topography of the water (the function which gives the deviation of the local surface level from the level of still water).

All fields have some kind of an equation of motion. Those equations are called field equations. Often these equations are linear partial differential equations, and have solutions that have the form of sine and cosine functions, like the animated image in your post.
 
The wave in quantum mechanics represents the probability amplitude for finding the particle at that position.
 
Jilang said:
The wave in quantum mechanics represents the probability amplitude for finding the particle at that position.
loudspeaker-waveform.gif

So, like sound waves that are given above, I should think of a similar picture for a particle; but instead of actual air particles like in the following image, I should imagine the denser regions where there's a higher probability of that particle being present and the rarer regions where there's a lower probability, correct?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: edguy99
"Probability amplitude" is not the same thing as "probability [distribution]". The wave of probability amplitude for an idealized particle with a fixed well-defined momentum is a complex wave: ##\Psi(x,t) = Ae^{i(kx - \omega t)}##. The corresponding probability distribution is ##\Psi^*\Psi = A^*A## which is a constant with no "peaks" or "troughs". The particle is equally likely to be found at any position x.
 
jtbell said:
"Probability amplitude" is not the same thing as "probability [distribution]". The wave of probability amplitude for an idealized particle with a fixed well-defined momentum is a complex wave: ##\Psi(x,t) = Ae^{i(kx - \omega t)}##. The corresponding probability distribution is ##\Psi^*\Psi = A^*A## which is a constant with no "peaks" or "troughs". The particle is equally likely to be found at any position x.
I'm extremely sorry, but I did not understand any of that, I've graduated only high school. Is there a simpler language?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: ProfuselyQuarky
Phys12, the nodes would correspond to the areas of low distribution probability so your green line needs fewer peaks and troughs. The amplitude (whether negative or positive) would correspond to the probability amplititude. Square the amplitude to get the probability.
 
Phys12 said:
But when we talk about a particle, like an electron, being a wave, or sound waves, what exactly does that mean?

It means its wrong.

Its a half truth we tell beginning students because they need some place to start.

The best that can be said is in some circumstances we have solutions that are mathematically like waves.

Don't worry about it for now. As you progress in QM the issue will be rectified.

Thanks
Bill
 
To get started, one way to visualize a wave is a flying harmonic oscillator. A simple harmonic oscillator is anything with a linear restoring potential. The simplest examples are things like a spring, or a string with tension, an expanding and contracting bubble, or a water wave. In 1926, Erwin Schrödinger, described mathematically how a harmonic oscillator stores energy and how to calculate how much energy it stores. These same calculations (or extensions of the same idea) are used to find all sorts of things from the energy of a photon (depends on its wavelength) to how an electron will interact with a grid of nickel atoms (it flies off in slightly different direction in a way the depends on its wavelength).

A visual example of this idea is here: http://www.animatedphysics.com/games/photon_cavity.htm
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 38 ·
2
Replies
38
Views
6K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K