What force accelerates a car down hill?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Zutswang
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Gravity
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the forces that cause a car to accelerate downhill, particularly in the context of general relativity and Newtonian physics. Participants explore the nature of gravity, its definitions, and how these concepts apply to the motion of a car on a slope.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question what initiates the motion of a car rolling downhill if gravity is not considered a force in general relativity.
  • Others argue that gravity, as understood in Newtonian terms, is the force that accelerates the car when it slips down a slope due to loss of friction.
  • There is a discussion about the differences between Newton's conception of gravity as a force and Einstein's view of gravity as the curvature of spacetime.
  • One participant mentions that an object at rest is still moving through time, which is relevant to understanding gravity in general relativity.
  • Some participants reference Einstein's thought experiments and his realization that a falling observer does not feel a force, raising questions about what causes acceleration in such scenarios.
  • Visual aids and models, such as the rubber sheet analogy, are debated, with some participants expressing concerns about their effectiveness in accurately representing gravitational concepts.
  • There are discussions about the limitations of models used to explain gravity and the necessity of understanding their context and simplifications.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of gravity or the forces involved in a car's acceleration downhill. Multiple competing views remain regarding the interpretation of gravity in both Newtonian and relativistic frameworks.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions of gravity and the implications of general relativity versus Newtonian physics. There are unresolved questions about the effectiveness of various models used to illustrate these concepts.

  • #31
To put things straight, i don't want to criticize the video. It certainly makes the idea of curved spacetime more accesible. Certainly for beginners accustumed to "ordinary high-school" physics.

It just occurred to me, that this is "I" topic which i read means undergrad, which i googled means someone pursuing bachelor degree. In this level, it could be perhaps good not to ignore that both diagrams are of completely different nature and that, if we try to draw space-time diagram in Newton theory it should be more similar to GR view.

Just a thought i wanted to throw here, of course i don't know your intentions for this video.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
Ibix said:
No. I said the rubber sheet model cannot explain certain things without invoking gravity. The rubber sheet model is not general relativity. (On a re-read, I see that wasn't entirely clearly written in my previous post).
If you believe this, place a ball on the sheet, stationary with respect to the mass in the centre. Now explain to me why it starts moving without reference to the actual force of gravity. Note also that if gravity plays no role, this experiment ought to work on the ISS. Do you think it will?

I repeat that it is, of course, possible to describe gravity without using gravity. But the rubber sheet model does not do it.
Something like this: https://xkcd.com/895/
 
  • #33
Umaxo said:
In MTW it was shown (chapter 12) that Newtonian gravitation in geometric language can still be described as curved spacetime (i.e. freely falling particle moves on geodesic).
Yes, also see here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton–Cartan_theory

Umaxo said:
So basically Newton and GR picture should be much more similar.
The video compares GR to Newton's formulation of his theory, not to its geometrical re-formulation.
 
  • #34
Zutswang said:
If, according to general relativity, gravity doesn't exist and falling bodies simply follow curved space, what starts them falling to begin with? If a car parked on a hill slips its brakes what starts it rolling downhill, and what force accelerates it?
In case of a hanged man floor keeps supplying momentum to his feet so that he does not fall or move through geodesic. When the floor disappears he starts moving through geodesic. After a while rope around his neck will supply momentum again to prevent him following geodesic. I hope it will be broken off.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 69 ·
3
Replies
69
Views
8K
  • · Replies 61 ·
3
Replies
61
Views
8K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 44 ·
2
Replies
44
Views
7K
  • · Replies 37 ·
2
Replies
37
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 70 ·
3
Replies
70
Views
6K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 51 ·
2
Replies
51
Views
6K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K