What Force is Needed to Pull a Solenoid in a Magnetic Field?

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves two solenoids positioned in a Cartesian coordinate system, with the goal of determining the force required to pull one solenoid away from another while considering the effects of the magnetic field produced by the current in the first solenoid. The context is rooted in electromagnetism and involves concepts of magnetic fields and induced electromotive force (emf).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to understand the relationship between the magnetic field produced by the first solenoid and the force required to move the second solenoid. They express uncertainty about the expression for the magnetic field and question the relevance of their findings regarding induced emf. Other participants suggest considering induction and sketching the situation to clarify the approach.

Discussion Status

Participants are exploring different aspects of the problem, including the magnetic field's behavior and its implications for force. Some hints have been provided regarding induction, but there is no clear consensus on the next steps or a definitive approach to the problem.

Contextual Notes

The original poster notes difficulty in finding an appropriate expression for the magnetic field and expresses concern about potentially misinterpreting the problem. There is also mention of complex formulas involving elliptical integrals, indicating a possible gap in foundational understanding or resources.

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Homework Statement


Two solenoids are placed in a cartesian xy-coordinate manner with their bottoms pointing in the negative y-direction, and their tops pointing in the positive y-direction. The solenoids are placed a distance x from each other (on the x-axis).

The solenoids are identical, each having length L, diameter d, N turns, resistance R and negligible self-inductance L.

The left-most solenoid has current I running through it.

Find the force, as a function of distance x between the solenoids, that is required to pull the right-most solenoid away from the left, with a constant velocity.


Homework Equations


I am not sure.

The Attempt at a Solution


My understanding is that the left-most solenoid having current running through it will produce a magnetic field, drawing the right-most solenoid towards it. I'm looking for a force that exceeds this magnetic force in magnitude, in order to get the solenoid moving in the +x-direction.

It makes sense to me that the force needed should be less for increasing distance from the left-most solenoid, since the magnetic field from it is weaker when moving away from it.

However, I can't seem to find a good expression for the magnetic field, radially outward from the left-most solenoid. All I find on the internet is some crazy formula containing "elliptical integrals of 1st and 2nd order"..

I'm starting to think I'm looking at the problem the wrong way.

Help! =)
 
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Hint: think induction.
 
Simon Bridge said:
Hint: think induction.

Hi Simon and thank you for your reply! I gave your hint a shot, and this is what I came up with:

Since the coil is of N turns, the induced emf in the coil running current through it should be given by
ε = -N(dø/dt).​

ε is also given by Ohm's law, ε = IR, meaning
IR = -N(dø/dt) ⇔ dB/dt = -IR/(NA)​
since the cross-sectional area of the coil is constant I took it out of the derivative. To clarify, A is the cross-sectional area I'm talking about,
A = (d/2)2π → dB/dt = -IR/(N(d/2)2π).​

From this I think it's pretty fair to say that dB/dt is constantly decreasing, meaning B(t) is decreasing linearly.

Is this decrease along the symmetry axis of the solenoid though, or is it actually appliable to the radial axis, the axis I think I'm looking to get the B-field for?

How does this help me in terms of finding the force required to push the right-most solenoid away from the left-most? I don't see the connection force-induction.
 
Sketch the situation... How would you normally treat that?
I'd try either treating as two magnets or use work-energy.
You are right... You need the radial field or some approx. I'm thinking you have a set of notes to deal with that.
 

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