What happened before the Big Bang?

[heusdens]

Originally posted by CJames
There are actually some very interesting theories involving universes created everytime a black hole is formed and any time there is a big crunch. In other words, when a star collapses into a black hole it creates a tunnel in spacetime that opens a new universe, another big bang. This creates a multiverse. (Of course, since by definition a universe is "everything" by definition the multiverse should actually be called a universe, which is perhaps why a new definition for universe needs to be written.)

Your theory states that any 'universe' "spawns off" new 'universes' by black holes. From that it follows that any "spawned" universe (the next generation of universes) gets smaller and smaller, cause a black hole contains only a small potion of the mass of the 'whole' universe in which it was formed. After only a very few generations, that process would stop, as there would not be enough mass to form any new black holes.

 

[heusdens]

Originally posted by DrChinese
First, there is nothing about the Big Bang that requires a creator. Or even points to one.

Second, so what if God created the Big Bang and has had little or no subsequent involvement in the unfolding of the universe? That is a perfectly reasonable hypothesis. Why would it scare any physicists?

It does not 'scare' physicists, but they will only tell you that any reference to 'God' or 'forces acting outside of the physical universe' is not physics, but meta-physics.

Physics can only deal with forces and material forms we can know about, and not about forces or (im)material forms we can not know about, like for instance 'the Creator', or anything like that.

The task to do for physics nowadays is to try to solve the puzzle that lie inside the supposed singularity. It means we need to take different approaches on laws of physcics. The BB theory poses a difficult contradiction between GR and quantum physics.

 

[heusdens]

Originally posted by HazZy
the only reason the BB doesn't point to a creator now is because of the imaginary time theory and the no boundary hypothesis.

well not scared in a sense of being afraid, but science just will just never accept god as the only answer, they make things logical by adding new terms and new theories. im not saying it's a bad thing, but when you continually invent new theories and ideas just to suit your previous theories i get kind of skeptical.

There is obviously a difficulty in physical terms with our model of the universe, since GR projects it started out from a singularity. We don't have a quantum gravity theory, so we have no idea as to what happened under that conditions.

What you say about being skeptical about how science proceeds, is I think not very relevant. Physics and science talk about what can be know. Science proceeds by modelling (parts) of reality into a theory, that fits observation. But no scientific theory is static, if new observations contradict the theory, we have to invent a new theory.
That is how science proceeds, and that makes it very different from f.i. theology that speaks in absolute terms about the divine origin of the universe, life, etc. This idea can neither be proven or disproven, and there fore has no use in the scientific debate.

 

[heusdens]

Originally posted by DrChinese
First, there is nothing about the Big Bang that requires a creator. Or even points to one.

Second, so what if God created the Big Bang and has had little or no subsequent involvement in the unfolding of the universe? That is a perfectly reasonable hypothesis. Why would it scare any physicists?

The Big Bang implies some deep philosophical and physical problems.

As to the issue of God, one could at least say that God did not create the universe, cause there was no time to do that (neither a place).

The reigious minded people will then hold on, and tell that God not only created matter, but time and space as well "simultaniously".
This makes God to be an actor outside of matter, time and space.

Physics can not deal with that, cause outside of matter, time and space, things don't exist. The can be "given" existence only by way of thought, that is they exist in the mind itself, as concepts, or abstract ideas, but not as physical realities.