What happened before the Big Bang?

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LogicalAtheist

Since paralell universes have been proven, I'd have to say that before the big bang was or could have been other universes.

And since identical paralell universes have been proven, I would add that before the big bang was YOU posting HERE "what happened before the big bang?"

Make sense?!

schwarzchildradius: I got that magazine too! What a great article and SO EASY TO PROVE PARALLEL AND IDENTICAL PARALLEL UNIVERSES EH?

Man that was a good article.
 
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LogicalAtheist

Why add God into this people? The mythology of god has no place here.

You can't comapre reality to mythology. In a given mythology the words in the myth are the entirity of that universe of mythology.

Comparing the two is not going to get you anywhere. That's like saying if God is God than how could Allah be God.

Well, they're two different mythological stories.

You wouldn't question a stephen king story against a scientific journal would you?
 

Eh

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Originally posted by LogicalAtheist
Since paralell universes have been proven, I'd have to say that before the big bang was or could have been other universes.
And just where can we find "proof" of these parallel universes? Certainly not in the sensationalist Sci-American article posted. Even if they were, the first 3 type of multiverses listed still require a beginning. For example, the type one multiverse rests on the notion that the universe is infinite, and so everything possible will happen somewhere. But that infinite universe is expanding and begins with a big bang.

With type 2, you can push back the beginning to the past, long before our universe. But this inflationary universe is still expanding, and sooner or later you'll hit a singularity in the past.
 
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LogicalAtheist

"Eh". I would politely suggest you research for yourself the proof of paralell universes. I'd ask that you not question such fundamental observations and use them as the basis of an arguement.

Furthermore, my statement stands true. The original poster question what was before the big bang. I assumed they meant the big bang of OUR universe.

Therefore, if our universe wasn't the first universe, then other big bangs, and other universes would have remained.

If you study the obvious and fundamental proof of paralell universes, you will find that likewise their are identical paralell universes.

So I conclude that saying that before OUR big bang, an identical universe could have existed.

No need to get inflammatory.


Originally posted by Eh
And just where can we find "proof" of these parallel universes? Certainly not in the sensationalist Sci-American article posted. Even if they were, the first 3 type of multiverses listed still require a beginning. For example, the type one multiverse rests on the notion that the universe is infinite, and so everything possible will happen somewhere. But that infinite universe is expanding and begins with a big bang.

With type 2, you can push back the beginning to the past, long before our universe. But this inflationary universe is still expanding, and sooner or later you'll hit a singularity in the past.
 

Eh

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Oh, no intent to get inflammatory.:wink: It's just that the Sci-American article is quite sensationalist and none of the multiverse models can be said to be factual. I don't think any physicist would even attempt to claim that any multiverse models are proven, which is why I would like to see this obvious and fundamental proof of parallel universes.

At any rate, the big bang seems to cause some confusion. As you've read from the article, there may be many other universe like ours. But those universes are part of a greater space-time, which is expanding and begins with a singularity. So you might say that the multiverse, will all "parallel universes" included begins with a big bang. Unfortunately, physicists still often refer to both local inflation events (the creation of our universe and others) and the beginning of space-time with the same name. So you can see why there is a source of confusion.
 
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LogicalAtheist

Eh - i agree on the confusion. It's not an area that's well defined enough to get it's own little society, and it's on nomenclature.
 
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Originally posted by CJames
There are actually some very interesting theories involving universes created everytime a black hole is formed and any time there is a big crunch. In other words, when a star collapses into a black hole it creates a tunnel in spacetime that opens a new universe, another big bang. This creates a multiverse. (Of course, since by definition a universe is "everything" by definition the multiverse should actually be called a universe, which is perhaps why a new definition for universe needs to be written.)
Your theory states that any 'universe' "spawns off" new 'universes' by black holes. From that it follows that any "spawned" universe (the next generation of universes) gets smaller and smaller, cause a blackhole contains only a small potion of the mass of the 'whole' universe in which it was formed. After only a very few generations, that process would stop, as there would not be enough mass to form any new blackholes.
 
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What happened before the Big Bang?

Originally posted by DrChinese
First, there is nothing about the Big Bang that requires a creator. Or even points to one.

Second, so what if God created the Big Bang and has had little or no subsequent involvement in the unfolding of the universe? That is a perfectly reasonable hypothesis. Why would it scare any physicists?
It does not 'scare' physicists, but they will only tell you that any reference to 'God' or 'forces acting outside of the physical universe' is not physics, but meta-physics.

Physics can only deal with forces and material forms we can know about, and not about forces or (im)material forms we can not know about, like for instance 'the Creator', or anything like that.

The task to do for physics nowadays is to try to solve the puzzle that lie inside the supposed singularity. It means we need to take different approaches on laws of physcics. The BB theory poses a difficult contradiction between GR and quantum physics.
 
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What happened before the Big Bang?

Originally posted by HazZy
the only reason the BB doesn't point to a creator now is because of the imaginary time theory and the no boundary hypothesis.

well not scared in a sense of being afraid, but science just will just never accept god as the only answer, they make things logical by adding new terms and new theories. im not saying it's a bad thing, but when you continually invent new theories and ideas just to suit your previous theories i get kind of skeptical.
There is obviously a difficulty in physical terms with our model of the universe, since GR projects it started out from a singularity. We don't have a quantum gravity theory, so we have no idea as to what happened under that conditions.

What you say about being skeptical about how science proceeds, is I think not very relevant. Physics and science talk about what can be know. Science proceeds by modelling (parts) of reality into a theory, that fits observation. But no scientific theory is static, if new observations contradict the theory, we have to invent a new theory.
That is how science proceeds, and that makes it very different from f.i. theology that speaks in absolute terms about the divine origin of the universe, life, etc. This idea can neither be proven or disproven, and there fore has no use in the scientific debate.
 
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What happened before the Big Bang?

Originally posted by DrChinese
First, there is nothing about the Big Bang that requires a creator. Or even points to one.

Second, so what if God created the Big Bang and has had little or no subsequent involvement in the unfolding of the universe? That is a perfectly reasonable hypothesis. Why would it scare any physicists?
The Big Bang implies some deep philosophical and physical problems.

As to the issue of God, one could at least say that God did not create the universe, cause there was no time to do that (neither a place).

The reigious minded people will then hold on, and tell that God not only created matter, but time and space as well "simultaniously".
This makes God to be an actor outside of matter, time and space.

Physics can not deal with that, cause outside of matter, time and space, things don't exist. The can be "given" existence only by way of thought, that is they exist in the mind itself, as concepts, or abstract ideas, but not as physical realities.
 

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