What happens to electron spin under Lorentz transformation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the transformation of electron spin under Lorentz transformations, exploring the implications for spin states in different reference frames. Participants examine the mathematical representation of spinors, the physical interpretation of these transformations, and the relationship between spin and momentum in relativistic contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe the spinor in the rest frame of the electron as representing a positive energy state with spin up in the Z direction, suggesting that after a Lorentz transformation, the spinor's state changes and its probability density is affected by a factor of gamma.
  • Others argue that the spinor represents a positive energy state aligned with the direction of the 4-momentum, and that the transformation involves projecting onto the positive energy subspace in the direction of the transformed 4-momentum.
  • There is a discussion about the physical interpretation of the spinor's energy in the presence of a magnetic field, questioning how the energy relates to different spin states.
  • Some participants clarify that the four-dimensional analog of the spin vector is not a 4-vector, emphasizing that spin is conjugate to infinitesimal rotations and should be treated as a 3-vector, while angular momentum must be represented by an antisymmetric tensor.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the non-unitarity of the spin operator and the implications of the spinor magnitude changing by a factor of gamma, particularly in relation to calculating total probabilities for the spin states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of spin transformations and the mathematical representations involved. There is no consensus on how to interpret the implications of these transformations for total probabilities or the physical meaning of the spin states in different frames.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved assumptions about the definitions of spin and angular momentum in relativistic contexts, as well as the dependence on specific mathematical representations and transformations. The discussion does not resolve the complexities surrounding the total probability for spin states.

alemsalem
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When you start in the rest frame of the electron, the Spinor w(p = 0) = (1 0 0 0 ) represents a positive energy state with spin up in the Z direction u = (0, 0 0 1),, that is the spinor is an eigenspinor of the operator S . u, where S is a 4 dimensional operator (S0, S)

after a Lorentz transformation (A) to a frame where the electron has momentum p (w(p) = S w(0)).

now w(p) is an eigenstate of the operator S . u1 where u1 = A u and its magnitude |w(p)|^2 has changed by a factor of gamma which is fine if you want to relate the probability density in both frames ( the volume element changed by a corresponding factor),, but if you want to calculate the total probability that the electron is in a spin state (Sz up or down) you don't get 1.

So how do we understand the spin of a moving electron, and how does it transform relativistically? shouldn't we be able to say that the electron is is in some eigenstate of an operator of the form S . v where both of them are three dimensional?

Thanks!
 
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alemsalem said:
When you start in the rest frame of the electron, the Spinor w(p = 0) = (1 0 0 0 ) represents a positive energy state with spin up in the Z direction u = (0, 0 0 1),, that is the spinor is an eigenspinor of the operator S . u, where S is a 4 dimensional operator (S0, S)
No. w represents a positive energy state with spin up in the direction of 4-momentum p =(m,0,0,0). After a Lorentz transformation, Sw represents a positive energy state with spin determined by an appropriate projection to the positive energy subspace in the direction of 4-momentum Lp, where S is the spinor representation and L the vector representation of the Lorentz transformation.
 
A. Neumaier said:
No. w represents a positive energy state with spin up in the direction of 4-momentum p =(m,0,0,0). After a Lorentz transformation, Sw represents a positive energy state with spin determined by an appropriate projection to the positive energy subspace in the direction of 4-momentum Lp, where S is the spinor representation and L the vector representation of the Lorentz transformation.

I'm having trouble understanding it physically, if there is a magnetic field in the z direction, what's the energy of w1(0) = (1 0 0 0 ) and w2 = (0 1 0 0 ).

Thanks.
 
the spinor is an eigenspinor of the operator S . u, where S is a 4 dimensional operator (S0, S)

Alemsalem, the four-dimensional analog of the spin vector is not a 4-vector, as you're apparently thinking. Spin is, by definition, the quantity that's conjugate (in the sense of Hamiltonian mechanics) to infinitesimal rotations. Three-dimensional rotations form a 3-vector, and so S is a 3-vector. But four-dimensional rotations (Lorentz tranformations) form an antisymmetric rank 2 tensor (note there are six of them) and so the angular momentum of a system must also be represented by an antisymmetric tensor. For a Dirac particle this is σμν
 
Bill_K said:
Alemsalem, the four-dimensional analog of the spin vector is not a 4-vector, as you're apparently thinking. Spin is, by definition, the quantity that's conjugate (in the sense of Hamiltonian mechanics) to infinitesimal rotations. Three-dimensional rotations form a 3-vector, and so S is a 3-vector. But four-dimensional rotations (Lorentz tranformations) form an antisymmetric rank 2 tensor (note there are six of them) and so the angular momentum of a system must also be represented by an antisymmetric tensor. For a Dirac particle this is σμν

I think I get that Ji = σjk, but my broblem is with the fact that S is not unitary, and that the spinor magnitude changes by a factor of gamma, which when you want to relate the probability densities it works just fine because it compensates the change in volume,, what then is the total probability for the spinor w(p) to be found in either of the eigenstates of J3 = σ12, is it gamma?.
 

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