What Happens When a Magnetic Field is Applied to a Gas in a Vacuum?

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    Gas Magnetization
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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the effects of applying a magnetic field to gases in a vacuum, particularly focusing on the behavior of hydrogen (H) and helium (He). Participants examine whether gas atoms align in a magnetic field similar to ferromagnetic materials and the underlying principles that dictate their magnetic properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the response of gases to a magnetic field depends on their magnetic properties, with most gases being diamagnetic and only a few being paramagnetic or ferromagnetic.
  • Questions arise regarding the existence of ferromagnetic gases and the specific behavior of hydrogen in a magnetic field.
  • Participants discuss the role of electron spin and its associated magnetic moment in contributing to the magnetic properties of atoms.
  • There is a query about the influence of the magnetic field produced by electron orbitals compared to that produced by electron spin.
  • Some participants reference external sources to clarify concepts related to paramagnetism and the conditions under which alignment might occur.
  • The relationship between quantum mechanics and classical models of magnetic moments is debated, particularly concerning the values of magnetic fields associated with electron spin and orbit in neutral hydrogen atoms.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the magnetic properties of gases, with no consensus on the existence of ferromagnetic gases or the precise mechanisms by which gases respond to magnetic fields. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the calculations of magnetic fields in neutral hydrogen atoms.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of magnetic properties, the complexity of quantum mechanical models, and the unresolved nature of certain calculations related to magnetic fields in specific atomic contexts.

bobie
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What happens if we apply a magnetic field to a gas in vacuum, (like H or He)?,
do the atoms get aligned like in ferromagnetic material and produce in their turn a strong magnetic field?,
if they don't, why so?

Thanks
 
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It depends on which gas it is. Most of the gases are diamagnetic, some paramagnetic and ferromagnetic gases are very rare.
 
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Can you give me an example of ferromagnetic gas? and what about H?
Since in a gas atoms are not bound (as in iron) what determines its reaction to a magnetic field?
 
Last edited:
UltrafastPED said:
Thanks for the interesting ling, Ultrafast, If I got it right alignment can occur at extremely low temperatures, because repulsive collisions between atoms are stronger than the magnetic force, and I suppose in laboratoty you cannot get a sufficiently strong magnetic field.

I hope you could explain a couple o obscure points
in your wiki article they say "The permanent moment generally is due to the spin of unpaired electrons in atomic or molecular electron orbitals (see Magnetic moment). "
- is the magnetism dependent only on the electron spin (which is very weak : [itex]\hbar[/itex]?
doesn't the B field produced by the standing wave ,which is a lot stronger, play any tole at all?
- In QM, I learned, the electron wave id 3-D, how can the electron spin be stuck only in one direction
in such model?
Thanks
 
Last edited:
Electron spin - the Pauli exclusion principle permits two electrons in the same "quantum state" = "orbital" if they have opposite spin.

The spin of an electron has an associated magnetic moment - thus the unpaired electrons are the most important source for magnetic fields at the atomic/molecular level.
 
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UltrafastPED said:
The spin of an electron has an associated magnetic moment - ...
Thanks, ultrafast, I am thinking of H to take the simplest case

I meant:
yes, the spin does have a magnetic moment, [itex]\mu[/itex](e)
- does it have also an associated magnetic field B(e)?, and,
- does the magnetic field generated by the orbit B(o) and its associated magnetic moment [itex]\mu[/itex](o) play any role in the magnetization ?
Thanks again
 
UltrafastPED said:
Magnetic moment implies the existence of a magnetic field.
Both spin and orbit contribute
We know that in QM the value of the spin momentum L(e) and the value of the orbital momentum L(o)(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_motion_(quantum)#Orbital_Angular_Momentum) are the same as in classical model = [itex]\hbar[/itex], the value of [itex]\mu[/itex]e is [itex]\hbar*2.0023[/itex] (ge), right?

What is the value of B(e) and B(o) in neutral H atom according to QM model or current theory? how do we calculate it?
 

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