What happens when wind affects the motion of a ball heading towards a wall?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of wind on the motion of a ball heading towards a wall, specifically examining the implications of Newtonian mechanics and the interaction of forces. Participants explore theoretical scenarios, practical considerations, and the nuances of motion in the presence of external forces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the forward velocity of the ball remains unchanged regardless of the wind's influence, suggesting it will always reach the wall.
  • Others question how high the wind speed would need to be for the ball to miss the wall entirely, indicating a potential violation of Newtonian principles.
  • One participant introduces an analogy involving running in a corridor to illustrate that external forces do not alter the time to impact with the wall.
  • There are discussions about the effects of a sideways force from the wind, with some arguing that it must be considered alongside other forces acting on the ball.
  • Another participant mentions the concept of velocity components, explaining how a sideways force could alter the trajectory while maintaining the forward velocity in an ideal scenario.
  • Some participants introduce the idea of air resistance and its potential impact on the ball's motion, suggesting that real-world conditions complicate the theoretical framework.
  • There are side discussions about the aerodynamics of rotating bullets and their lift generation, indicating a broader interest in related physical concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no clear consensus on the effects of wind on the ball's trajectory. Some maintain that the ball will always hit the wall, while others propose scenarios where it might not, leading to ongoing debate.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the discussion is framed within idealized conditions, such as frictionless motion, while recognizing that real-world factors like air resistance could alter outcomes.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying physics, particularly in the areas of mechanics and aerodynamics, as well as individuals curious about the implications of forces on motion.

jainabhs
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Hi all
In Newtonian mechanics we say that the 'force acting on an object don't affect the velocity of that object which is perpendicular to the force'
Consequeces of this fact are like if I fire a bullet from my gun, and drop the same kind of bullet at the same time I fire , both the bullets will reach the ground simultaneously. Because vertical motion is not affected by horrizontal motion.
There is one more example - If a ball is heading towards a wall with 2mt/sec.
As it is 2 meters away from the wall, wind blows from sideways and deflects the direction of the ball; But still the ball would reach the wall with in the same time it would have reached without wind. This is all okay.
Question: Doesnt this rule get violated if the speed of the wind is so high that it takes the ball along and ball never touches the wall

Please help me understand this...thanks in anticipation

Abhishek Jain
 
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jainabhs said:
Question: Doesnt this rule get violated if the speed of the wind is so high that it takes the ball along and ball never touches the wall
How fast does the wind have to be going to do that?
 
Won't happen.
The ball will always touch the wall.
Greater wind speed just means that the ball travels a greater distance in the direction of the wind before it touches the wall.

Imagine running down an endless corridor, and the walls on either side of you are closing in, they are accelerating towards each other, and will touch in twenty minutes. It doesn't matter how hard you run, how fast you run, how far you get - the walls will still crush you in exactly twenty minutes. I think I have issues...
 
Last edited:
What am I missing? The wind exerts a sideways force on the ball. You have to consider ALL forces acting you can't pick and choose.
 
Integral, the sideforce by the wind is the only force on the ball. What is your point? In any case, the ball can be traveling at an infinite sped sideways, but it's speed in the original direction of motion is unchanged, and it will thus hit the wall in the same amount of time as if the wind was not there.
Unless you try and consider relativistic effects...
 
hmmm... just a side thought, doesn't a rotating bullet generate lift? I don't know too much about aerodynamics so does anyone know the answer?
 
Velocity is made up of two components perpendicular to each other. Let's say something is moving north-east. The velocity is made up of a North component and an East component. If a force starts acting on the object toward the west then the object's east velocity will reduce, and then go negative (so the velocity would be positive in the west direction) and eventually the object would be going north-west. But it's northward velocity component will not change at all (in a frictionless, ideal system).

But of course that is in a frictionless system. In reality it would be somewhat different.As for the ball missing the wall entirely the rule isn't violated, it just missed the wall. The forward velocity component of the ball is uneffected. (Again, ideal).
 
tim_lou said:
hmmm... just a side thought, doesn't a rotating bullet generate lift? I don't know too much about aerodynamics so does anyone know the answer?

I would have thought that the lift could be up or down on a rotating bullet because it depends on the wind speed direction across the bullet. Anyway, here is a link that should explain most things:

 
rieuk said:
Integral, the sideforce by the wind is the only force on the ball. What is your point? In any case, the ball can be traveling at an infinite sped sideways, but it's speed in the original direction of motion is unchanged, and it will thus hit the wall in the same amount of time as if the wind was not there.
Unless you try and consider relativistic effects...
If the wind exerts a sideways force, then you must be considering air resistance. There is then also a force oposing the forward motion of the ball. So there is no guarantee that it will reach the wall in the real world.
 
  • #10
Reaching the wall is just a way of signifying forward velocity. But other then that Integral is 100% correct. But note he says in the real world. In most of the situations presented in high school physics (frictionless) a force acting on the ball from the side would not affect the front at all.
 

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