What if black holes can violate second law of thermodynamics

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the potential for black holes to violate the second law of thermodynamics, suggesting that this law may only apply to macroscopic systems and could be an emergent phenomenon rather than a fundamental property of nature. The no-hair theorem indicates that black holes possess only three degrees of freedom: mass, angular momentum, and charge. It is proposed that adding matter to a black hole may not increase entropy, as matter is lost behind the event horizon, potentially allowing for a reduction in entropy. The implications of this theory challenge established physics and raise questions about the nature of entropy in the universe.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of the second law of thermodynamics
  • Familiarity with the no-hair theorem in black hole physics
  • Knowledge of entropy and its role in thermodynamics
  • Basic concepts of quantum mechanics and emergent phenomena
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  • Research the implications of the fluctuation theorem in thermodynamics
  • Explore the relationship between black holes and entropy reduction
  • Investigate current theories on emergent properties in physics
  • Study advanced concepts in quantum gravity and their relation to black holes
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Physicists, cosmologists, and students of theoretical physics interested in the intersection of black hole mechanics and thermodynamic laws.

kodama
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GUT's violate baryon number b/c baryon conservation is an emergent phenomenon

second law of thermodynamics clearly applies to macroscopic systems, and are the result of the many ways in which atoms of macroscopic systems can be arranged.

what if second law of thermodynamics though is just emergent and only applies to systems that are composed of quanta with many ways or arrangement but not a fundamental property of nature itself.

the no-hair theorem implies black holes only have 3 degrees of freedom.
mass, angular moment, and charge.

maybe it is possible for black holes to violate the second law of thermodynamics, that adding matter does not increase entropy since it is lost behind the event horizon.

the universe must have started off in a very low-entropy state. maybe entropy can be reduced by black holes.

what are the ramifications to physics if black holes can violate the second law of thermodynamics?
 
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Closed pending moderation

Edit: this thread will remain closed. Violations of the 2nd law of thermodynamics by ordinary systems are well described by the fluctuation theorem. The mentors are unaware of any work applying fluctuation theorem to black holes. If there is such work, then please PM me with it and we can reopen the thread.
 
Last edited:

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