Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

A What if black holes can violate second law of thermodynamics

  1. Jun 28, 2016 #1
    GUT's violate baryon number b/c baryon conservation is an emergent phenomenon

    second law of thermodynamics clearly applies to macroscopic systems, and are the result of the many ways in which atoms of macroscopic systems can be arranged.

    what if second law of thermodynamics though is just emergent and only applies to systems that are composed of quanta with many ways or arrangement but not a fundamental property of nature itself.

    the no-hair theorem implies black holes only have 3 degrees of freedom.
    mass, angular moment, and charge.

    maybe it is possible for black holes to violate the second law of thermodynamics, that adding matter does not increase entropy since it is lost behind the event horizon.

    the universe must have started off in a very low-entropy state. maybe entropy can be reduced by black holes.

    what are the ramifications to physics if black holes can violate the second law of thermodynamics?
  2. jcsd
  3. Jun 28, 2016 #2


    Staff: Mentor

    Closed pending moderation

    Edit: this thread will remain closed. Violations of the 2nd law of thermodynamics by ordinary systems are well described by the fluctuation theorem. The mentors are unaware of any work applying fluctuation theorem to black holes. If there is such work, then please PM me with it and we can reopen the thread.
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
Share this great discussion with others via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook