What is a first order process in particle physics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of first-order processes in particle physics, particularly in the context of allowed reactions and conservation laws. Participants explore the definitions and implications of first-order and second-order processes, as well as their relationship to perturbation theory and interaction vertices.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that a first-order process is linear in a coupling constant and involves a single interaction vertex, while nth order processes involve multiple vertices and factors of coupling constants.
  • There is a discussion about conservation laws, with some participants questioning whether conservation of lepton number, baryon number, and charge are associated with first-order processes, while weak and strong interactions might be considered second-order.
  • One participant notes the need to clarify the distinction between conservation laws and interactions, indicating that interactions may conserve some quantities while violating others.
  • Another participant raises a specific reaction involving an electron and a proton, questioning the allowed weak interactions of quarks and suggesting that the term "first-order" may have different interpretations among participants.
  • There is mention of deducing meanings from notes or examples, indicating uncertainty about the definitions being used in the context of the discussion.
  • One participant proposes that "first-order" might refer to tree level interactions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of what constitutes a first-order process, and there is no consensus on the specific conservation laws associated with these processes. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the definitions and implications of first-order and second-order processes.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various conservation laws and interactions without fully resolving the implications of these relationships. There is also a lack of clarity on the specific processes being discussed, which may affect the understanding of first-order and second-order classifications.

j-lee00
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I was given the following question

Which of the reactions on the right are allowed by first-order processes? For those which are not allowed, state one conservation law which is violated.

What is a first order process in particle physics? i.e what does first order refer to? What would be a second order process?

Thanks
Jason
 
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Think perturbation theory. A first-order process would be linear in some coupling constant. Equivalently it would involve a single interaction vertex. An nth order process would involve n interaction vertices and would be proportional to n factors of (possibly different) coupling constants.
 
fzero said:
Think perturbation theory. A first-order process would be linear in some coupling constant. Equivalently it would involve a single interaction vertex. An nth order process would involve n interaction vertices and would be proportional to n factors of (possibly different) coupling constants.

Thanks for you response

I am new to the subject so excuse my ignorance.

So the violation of laws that they are referring to are conservation of lepton no, baryon no, Charge (which are first order?). Where as weak and strong are second order?
 
j-lee00 said:
Thanks for you response

I am new to the subject so excuse my ignorance.

So the violation of laws that they are referring to are conservation of lepton no, baryon no, Charge (which are first order?). Where as weak and strong are second order?

You seem to be confusing conservation laws with interactions. An interaction will conserve some quantities and possibly violate conservation of other quantities. You might want to post some of the processes that the problem is talking about so that. Also post a process that you understand and explain it so that I can understand what techniques you're meant to be using. I mean are you given an interaction term in a Lagrangian or just some list of allowed processes that you're supposed to compare with the processes in the problem?
 
I have attached it as a jpeg, the reactions are below in the pic not on the right
 

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Let's consider process ii, [tex]e^- + p \rightarrow \nu_e + n[/tex]. You need to determine the quarks that make up the initial particles and final particles. Do you know what weak interactions of quarks are allowed?Also, I think they may mean something different than I do when they say "first-order." If you can't find anything in your notes, perhaps we can deduce what they mean along the way.
 
For example the first reaction wrote that due to non conservation of electron lepton number, this reaction cannot procceed?

Thank you, I have to go
 
fzero said:
Also, I think they may mean something different than I do when they say "first-order." If you can't find anything in your notes, perhaps we can deduce what they mean along the way.

I think they mean tree level interactions.
 

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