What Is an Example of Weak but Not Strong Convergence in L²(R)?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of weak and strong convergence in the context of L²(R) and infinite-dimensional Hilbert spaces. Participants explore examples of sequences that exhibit weak convergence without strong convergence, as well as the implications of these convergence types on topology.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants seek an example of a sequence in L²(R) that converges weakly but not strongly, indicating a lack of clarity on such examples.
  • One participant proposes a sequence in ℓ², noting that it converges weakly but not strongly, referencing the Banach-Alaoglu theorem.
  • There is a discussion on the definitions of strong and weak convergence, with participants confirming standard definitions.
  • Participants discuss the weak topology induced by weak convergence and its properties compared to the strong topology.
  • Questions arise regarding the definition of the weak topology and its relation to continuous functionals in the context of Banach spaces.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definitions of weak and strong convergence, but there is no consensus on specific examples of sequences that demonstrate weak but not strong convergence. The discussion on the weak topology remains exploratory, with various viewpoints presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the existence of specific examples of sequences in L²(R) and the implications of weak convergence on topology. The discussion includes references to the Banach-Alaoglu theorem and its corollaries, but the application to L²(R) remains unresolved.

dextercioby
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So I've seen the distinction one makes in case of infinite-dimensional Hilbert spaces. Weak convergence versus strong convergence of sequences.

I cannot think of an example of sequence of vectors in L^2(R) which converges with respect to the scalar product, but not with respect to the norm induced by it.

Can one offer me such an example ?

Another question would be: if the strong convergence induces the metric topology on L^2(R), then does weak convergence induce a topology ?

Thank you!
 
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dextercioby said:
So I've seen the distinction one makes in case of infinite-dimensional Hilbert spaces. Weak convergence versus strong convergence of sequences.

Allright, let's first agree on the meaning here. I assume with strong convergence you mean:

[tex]x_n\rightarrow x~\text{strongly}~\Leftrightarrow~\|x_n-x\|\rightarrow 0[/tex]

And with weak convergence:

[tex]x_n\rightarrow x~\text{weakly}~\Leftrightarrow~<x_n,y>\rightarrow <x,y>, \forall y[/tex].

Is this what you mean?

I cannot think of an example of sequence of vectors in L^2(R) which converges with respect to the scalar product, but not with respect to the norm induced by it.

Can one offer me such an example ?

I can offer you an easy example in [tex]\ell^2[/tex], is that also good? (it should be since [tex]L^2(R)[/tex] is isometric to [tex]\ell^2[/tex])...

Let

[tex]x_1=(1,0,0,...),~x_2=(0,1,0,0,...),~x_3=(0,0,1,0,...),...[/tex]

This sequence does not converge strongly, but it does converge weakly in [tex]\ell^2[/tex] (if I didn't make a mistake). I got this example from the Banach-Alaoglu theorem, which has as corollary for Hilbert spaces that "every bounded sequence in a Hilbert space has a weakly convergent subsequence".

Another question would be: if the strong convergence induces the metric topology on L^2(R), then does weak convergence induce a topology ?

Yes! It is called the weak topology. The weak topology has a lot of good properties that the strong topology doesn't have. For example, the closed unit ball in a Hilbert space has a weak compact closure is a nice result for the weak topology which does not hold for the strong topology. My example is again an incarnation of the Banach-Alaoglu theorem...
 
micromass said:
Allright, let's first agree on the meaning here. I assume with strong convergence you mean:

[tex]x_n\rightarrow x~\text{strongly}~\Leftrightarrow~\|x_n-x\|\rightarrow 0[/tex]

And with weak convergence:

[tex]x_n\rightarrow x~\text{weakly}~\Leftrightarrow~<x_n,y>\rightarrow <x,y>, \forall y[/tex].

Is this what you mean?

Yes, these are the standard definitions.

micromass said:
I can offer you an easy example in [tex]\ell^2[/tex], is that also good? (it should be since [tex]L^2(R)[/tex] is isometric to [tex]\ell^2[/tex])...

Let

[tex]x_1=(1,0,0,...),~x_2=(0,1,0,0,...),~x_3=(0,0,1,0,...),...[/tex]

This sequence does not converge strongly, but it does converge weakly in [tex]\ell^2[/tex] (if I didn't make a mistake). I got this example from the Banach-Alaoglu theorem, which has as corollary for Hilbert spaces that "every bounded sequence in a Hilbert space has a weakly convergent subsequence".

OK, thank you for the example. I've done some research based on your hint and the inequivalence betweem the 2 convergence types is valid generally for any orthonormal set of vectors in a pre-Hilbert space.

Yes! It is called the weak topology. The weak topology has a lot of good properties that the strong topology doesn't have. For example, the closed unit ball in a Hilbert space has a weak compact closure is a nice result for the weak topology which does not hold for the strong topology. My example is again an incarnation of the Banach-Alaoglu theorem...

Ok, but how is the topology defined ? The metric topology in a pre-Banach space has the unit balls, what are the open sets that define the topology in the case of convergence of arbitrary sequences with respect to the scalar product ?

Thanks!
 
dextercioby said:
Ok, but how is the topology defined ?

Well, you take the weakest topology on H such that all the functions [tex]<\cdot,y><img src="/styles/physicsforums/xenforo/smilies/arghh.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":H" title="Gah! :H" data-shortname=":H" />\rightarrow \mathbb{C}[/tex] are continuous. This topology is generated by the following subbasis:

[tex]\{<\cdot,y>^{-1}(G)~\vert~y\in H,~G~\text{open in}~\mathbb{C}\}[/tex]

In topology, this is also known as the initial topology.

More generally, we can define the weak topology on a Banach spaces X (we can even do more general than that!) as the weakest topology such that all the functions in [tex]\mathcal{C}(X,\mathcal{C})[/tex] (= the continuous functions for the strong topology) are continuous. So, in particular, the weak and strong topology have the same continuous functionals.
Weak convergence for Banach spaces is defined as

[tex]x_n\rightarrow x~\Leftrightarrow~f(x_n)\rightarrow f(x)~\text{for}~f\in \mathcal{C}(X,\mathbb{C})[/tex].

Note that these definitions correspond to the usual ones in Hilbert spaces by the Riesz lemma: every continuous functional has the form [tex]<\cdot,y>[/tex].
 
micromass said:
Well, you take the weakest topology on H such that all the functions [tex]<\cdot,y><img src="/styles/physicsforums/xenforo/smilies/arghh.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":H" title="Gah! :H" data-shortname=":H" />\rightarrow \mathbb{C}[/tex] are continuous. This topology is generated by the following subbasis:

[tex]\{<\cdot,y>^{-1}(G)~\vert~y\in H,~G~\text{open in}~\mathbb{C}\}[/tex]

In topology, this is also known as the initial topology.

OK, that term I saw in an article by J.E. Roberts on Rigged Hilbert Spaces.

micromass said:
More generally, we can define the weak topology on a Banach spaces X (we can even do more general than that!) as the weakest topology such that all the functions in [tex]\mathcal{C}(X,\mathcal{C})[/tex] (= the continuous functions for the strong topology) are continuous. So, in particular, the weak and strong topology have the same continuous functionals.
Weak convergence for Banach spaces is defined as

[tex]x_n\rightarrow x~\Leftrightarrow~f(x_n)\rightarrow f(x)~\text{for}~f\in \mathcal{C}(X,\mathbb{C})[/tex].

So I'm supposed to read this: x_n converges weakly to x iff the the sequence of functionals's values converges weakly in C.

Thank you for the valuable input.
 
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