What is good time for Earth to begin new evolutionary cycle?

[Graw]

Perhaps it was a test creation but it was too good, it was heading for incineration but got out. Perhaps it was a terrorist or other extremist group.

Thing is is it that important for you to explain it? Plenty of stories don't explain everything in their history, indeed the uncertainty is entirely believable given enough time passing. In my experience authors that try to explain everything often create more problems for themselves.

So you are telling me it doesn't matter that much to explain those events? If no, then I got this problem solved and I can only mention it.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

So you are telling me it doesn't matter that much to explain those events? If no, then I got this problem solved and I can only mention it.

Nope, doesn't matter. I can think of plenty of books that never fully explain their past, often it feels a lot more real that way and adds a sense of mystery.

 

[Czcibor]

Nope, doesn't matter. I can think of plenty of books that never fully explain their past, often it feels a lot more real that way and adds a sense of mystery.

A good way is instead "author don't know" is making clear that characters have a few possible explanations and are not sure about it. ;)

 

[Graw]

A good way is instead "author don't know" is making clear that characters have a few possible explanations and are not sure about it. ;)

Wohou that would be actually really cool. Surviors and colonist can both have different explanations on the cause of apocalypse and none of them can be real.

 

[DaveC426913]

Nope, doesn't matter. I can think of plenty of books that never fully explain their past, often it feels a lot more real that way and adds a sense of mystery.

Well, let's be clear, it's up to you whether it matters to your story or not. Some stories don't go into backstory, but it can leave the story wanting of plausibility. You've got to decide if you want your story to have logical consistency. If the after effects of the downfall are significant to your story (and, by the sounds of what you're trying to set up with abandoned cities, they might be), you'll want to bring the reader up to speed on that. Otherwise, the story might be seen more as a kind of future fantasy rather than sci-fi.

It's a dreadful example, but I'll use it anyway: The Hunger Games (books) were really interesting, but I would have enjoyed them more if they had done just a little backstory on the fall of 21st century civilization, and how we ended up with only 13 states, with most people in poverty and on the verge of starvation.

In this case, though, the milieu was the games themselves, which was more a microcosm, with its own internal logic and plot drivers. The landscape against which the Games themselves were set was secondary to the story.

On the other hand, an example of Ryan's "mysterious circumstances" is Cloud Atlas, where they alluded to the downfall - without explaining it - for most of the book, and it was revealed in the course of the story. But is was revealed.I put to you this litmus test:

Do you want your story to be about the aftermath of the downfall of civilization, and the characters' struggle against nature? Are the characters encountering historical evidence of the downfall?

Or do you want your story to be a microcosm in which they simply deal with the exigencies of day-to-day survival in a world they implicitly accept as their reality?

Perhaps more simply: do the characters care about the history of their circumstances?

 

[Czcibor]

Wohou that would be actually really cool. Surviors and colonist can both have different explanations on the cause of apocalypse and none of them can be real.

In case of survivors it should be some legends / religious stuff. Maybe real events mixed up with Christian (or what's the origin of the group?) estachology with some additional mutations. (if you're really good you mix up myths from a few religions :D ) 1000 years of repeating story is enough to distort it seriously.

In case of colonists... Well, 1000 years that's not so much, we have not so bad knowledge about ancient Greece. So if there are some modifications, they are more result of some political pressure. The most obvious - to boost authority of the ruling house. The less obvious involve intelectual fads and making the event fit the dominating ideology. It does not have to be intentional.

(Examle in Real Life - Jared Diamond book Collapse, who I highly value. He was making a case about overly conservative approach of cultures, and how they desperately cling to good old ways, even when environment change. He used a case of Viking in Greenland. Unfortunately for him the later archeological studies clearly shown, that they tried hard to adapt. But it would be really un-American to write "doomed whatever you do", instead of "if you want, you can")

 

[DaveC426913]

Well, 1000 years that's not so much, we have not so bad knowledge about ancient Greece.

Yes, but that's 1000 years of recorded history, with people always examining the past and carrying it forward, because they have the resources and manpower to do so.

Imagine how much a civilization in 4000BC might have known about civilization that existed in 5000BC. Virtually none. This is probably a more accurate analogy to the OP's story.

 

[Czcibor]

Yes, but that's 1000 years of recorded history, with people always examining the past and carrying it forward, because they have the resources and manpower to do so.

Imagine how much a civilization in 4000BC might have known about civilization that existed in 5000BC. Virtually none. This is probably a more accurate analogy to the OP's story.

I think that he requested a 1000 years of stagnation on level a bit higher than contemporary. So that means quite good record keeping...

 

[DaveC426913]

I think that he requested a 1000 years of stagnation on level a bit higher than contemporary. So that means quite good record keeping...

Perhaps I misunderstood. I thought the 1000 years occurred after the downfall but before the events of the story:

Humanity exctincted and after XXX years Earth is populated by "new" humans.

 

[Czcibor]

Perhaps I misunderstood. I thought the 1000 years occurred after the downfall but before the events of the story:

Yes, and there was a need of providing some mixture of monarchy and tech stagnation. So there may be microSD cards with photos of the apocalypse ;)

(yes, I know not durable enough)

 

[Graw]

In case of survivors it should be some legends / religious stuff. Maybe real events mixed up with Christian (or what's the origin of the group?) estachology with some additional mutations. (if you're really good you mix up myths from a few religions :D ) 1000 years of repeating story is enough to distort it seriously.

In case of colonists... Well, 1000 years that's not so much, we have not so bad knowledge about ancient Greece. So if there are some modifications, they are more result of some political pressure. The most obvious - to boost authority of the ruling house. The less obvious involve intelectual fads and making the event fit the dominating ideology. It does not have to be intentional.

(Examle in Real Life - Jared Diamond book Collapse, who I highly value. He was making a case about overly conservative approach of cultures, and how they desperately cling to good old ways, even when environment change. He used a case of Viking in Greenland. Unfortunately for him the later archeological studies clearly shown, that they tried hard to adapt. But it would be really un-American to write "doomed whatever you do", instead of "if you want, you can")

I want those survivors to have paintings of colonist's ships, their suits, weapons etc. so they consider them as ancient people but when they meet my main character who is colonist they will consider him as a god. He will teach them stuff etc.

 

[Czcibor]

I want those survivors to have paintings of colonist's ships, their suits, weapons etc. so they consider them as ancient people but when they meet my main character who is colonist they will consider him as a god. He will teach them stuff etc.

The tricky part here is why they worship astronauts and not ex. tanks? ;) I mean they do not look so cool and no savage has dig out any austronaut to tell a great legend...

So the departure and leaving behind created a traumatic experience? And created a cult?

(anyway, think how fun misconception concerning space trave such savage may have...)

 

[Graw]

The tricky part here is why they worship astronauts and not ex. tanks? ;) I mean they do not look so cool and no savage has dig out any austronaut to tell a great legend...

So the departure and leaving behind created a traumatic experience? And created a cult?

(anyway, think how fun misconception concerning space trave such savage may have...)

Because first survivors started to tell stories about those who left to colony and stories later changed into myths. So they kinda worship those ancient things without knowing what they used to do.

 

[Czcibor]

Because first survivors started to tell stories about those who left to colony and stories later changed into myths. So they kinda worship those ancient things without knowing what they used to do.

What's the accuracy of those paintings, and if good, how they made it?

 

[Ryan_m_b]

I think that he requested a 1000 years of stagnation on level a bit higher than contemporary. So that means quite good record keeping...

The OP has two settings to consider:

1) A disaster happens on Earth, wipes nearly everyone out. The few left become tribal people.

2) At the time of the fall man was colonising another planet. That colony survived the fall of Earth but spent 1000 years stagnating.

The story is about the two groups meeting.

 

[Graw]

The OP has two settings to consider:

1) A disaster happens on Earth, wipes nearly everyone out. The few left become tribal people.

2) At the time of the fall man was colonising another planet. That colony survived the fall of Earth but spent 1000 years stagnating.

The story is about the two groups meeting.

The OP has two settings to consider:

1) A disaster happens on Earth, wipes nearly everyone out. The few left become tribal people.

2) At the time of the fall man was colonising another planet. That colony survived the fall of Earth but spent 1000 years stagnating.

The story is about the two groups meeting.

Both settings are actualy in one story, but that second group (colonists) are living on another planet.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Both settings are actualy in one story, but that second group (colonists) are living on another planet.

Yes I'm aware.

 

[Graw]

Yes I'm aware.

Good. Quite satisfying to see that there are still people who can understand my inferior grammar :D

 

[Dr_Zinj]

Philip Jose Farmer did a nice novel (The Stone God Awakens) where humanity has been extinct for millions of years and cats and dogs evolved into bipedal intellient people. He left the mechanism of our extinction deliberately vague. David Gerrold's, "War of the Chtorr" series is a good one about an alien species causing the extinction of humans on Earth by biosphere modification. There are already,
That's one of the keys to writing acceptable science fiction. Keep it simple, use the basic premises but don't explain too much, especially if you're writing toward a teen audience (and a lot of adults are reading at that level today.) I forget who said, "Never let the facts stand in the way of a good story."

 

[newjerseyrunner]

If you allowed capitalism to grow to it's most extreme form on a planetary level, perhaps other planets will have more resources and human colonies could eventually just suck the Earth dry. Think what Detroit was/is to the United States. Perhaps Earth just went through hundreds of years of poverty due to a multi planetary plutocracy, business might just have been better on the moon or Mars. Without money to drive their government, they'd let Earth just sit there and rot.

 

[Graw]

Philip Jose Farmer did a nice novel (The Stone God Awakens) where humanity has been extinct for millions of years and cats and dogs evolved into bipedal intellient people. He left the mechanism of our extinction deliberately vague. David Gerrold's, "War of the Chtorr" series is a good one about an alien species causing the extinction of humans on Earth by biosphere modification. There are already,
That's one of the keys to writing acceptable science fiction. Keep it simple, use the basic premises but don't explain too much, especially if you're writing toward a teen audience (and a lot of adults are reading at that level today.) I forget who said, "Never let the facts stand in the way of a good story."

Nicely said, especially that last line got me.

 

[Graw]

If you allowed capitalism to grow to it's most extreme form on a planetary level, perhaps other planets will have more resources and human colonies could eventually just suck the Earth dry. Think what Detroit was/is to the United States. Perhaps Earth just went through hundreds of years of poverty due to a multi planetary plutocracy, business might just have been better on the moon or Mars. Without money to drive their government, they'd let Earth just sit there and rot.

Wait a moment... this is actualy.. really cool idea! Thank you, I am going to use it in some way! (Btw. I am not from US I don't know much about Detroit but I heard some stories about it's economy etc.)

 

[Czcibor]

If you allowed capitalism to grow to it's most extreme form on a planetary level, perhaps other planets will have more resources and human colonies could eventually just suck the Earth dry. Think what Detroit was/is to the United States. Perhaps Earth just went through hundreds of years of poverty due to a multi planetary plutocracy, business might just have been better on the moon or Mars. Without money to drive their government, they'd let Earth just sit there and rot.

I'm not sure whether you haven't simplified the story a bit. I mean sure - Detroit lost a lot because its companies failed in fight with international competition (a marketing problem). However, when they went into troubles, then local gov which was seriously corrupted and was making unrealistic spending promises got into trouble. So problems with jobs were accompanied with problems about gov services. Then a white flight started which undercut tax base, deprive city of smaller businesses and deprive local democracy of those who care. Only debts, to weak to escape, troublemakers and decaying buildings remained.

 

[DHF]

You could go with a genetically engineered downfall. Instead of a plague that causes disease and outright death, What if the eventual rise in genetic engineering led to an outbreak of sterility? if passed like a common cold, the effects would be slow as people might not realize anything was wrong at first, by the time we know what is happening, population is in at an irreversible decline. The end of the human race would not be a loud bang but rather a slow withering that takes place over several generations.

With a device like this you could either dial down the population to a fraction of a percent of our current total. A few thousand scattered over the globe who are born with an immunity to the sterility.

OR

You could say there was never a cure and little by little humanity died off completely. fast forward a few million years an a new species steps up. Curious individuals could start to wonder where all of the ruins come from. For as long as anyone can remember they have always been there but where an explorer comes across Mt. Rushmore, it could be that awe inspiring realization that the ruins come from someone other then themselves.

 

[QST]

Short answer: It would take forever. Have you ever seen a single extinct species be reintroduced by evolution?

 

[Graw]

You could go with a genetically engineered downfall. Instead of a plague that causes disease and outright death, What if the eventual rise in genetic engineering led to an outbreak of sterility? if passed like a common cold, the effects would be slow as people might not realize anything was wrong at first, by the time we know what is happening, population is in at an irreversible decline. The end of the human race would not be a loud bang but rather a slow withering that takes place over several generations.

With a device like this you could either dial down the population to a fraction of a percent of our current total. A few thousand scattered over the globe who are born with an immunity to the sterility.

OR

You could say there was never a cure and little by little humanity died off completely. fast forward a few million years an a new species steps up. Curious individuals could start to wonder where all of the ruins come from. For as long as anyone can remember they have always been there but where an explorer comes across Mt. Rushmore, it could be that awe inspiring realization that the ruins come from someone other then themselves.

This is what I wanted to do, not really this disease but that scenario where new species step up and they are like humans. But after long dicsussion over here I decided to change it.

I'm not sure whether you haven't simplified the story a bit. I mean sure - Detroit lost a lot because its companies failed in fight with international competition (a marketing problem). However, when they went into troubles, then local gov which was seriously corrupted and was making unrealistic spending promises got into trouble. So problems with jobs were accompanied with problems about gov services. Then a white flight started which undercut tax base, deprive city of smaller businesses and deprive local democracy of those who care. Only debts, to weak to escape, troublemakers and decaying buildings remained.

Well I never cared much about Detroit or US situation in overall. Got enough own problems in Europe :D But thank you for explaining!