What is Space? Mass, Curvature, Dimensions Explained

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of space and its relationship with mass and curvature, particularly in the context of general relativity (GR) and special relativity (SR). Participants explore whether space and time can be considered as entities that can be curved or if they are merely descriptions of relationships between objects. The conversation includes conceptual clarifications and challenges to established theories.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether space is a substance that can be curved, expressing skepticism about the idea that time and space have autonomous existence.
  • Others argue that the concepts of spacetime can be translated into measurement language, suggesting that relativity is a fundamental aspect of the universe.
  • A participant proposes that curved spacetime is an abstract mathematical model that describes observations, similar to how forces are represented by vectors.
  • One participant shares a personal reasoning that space must be something because it separates objects, using the example of the distance between Earth and the moon.
  • Another participant introduces the idea that physical space might be a higher-dimensional brane, implying multiple possible interpretations of space.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of space and time, with no consensus reached. Some participants challenge the notion of space as a tangible entity, while others propose different models and interpretations, indicating ongoing debate.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the need for visualizations to better understand curved spacetime and mention previous discussions on the topic, highlighting the complexity and abstract nature of the concepts involved.

earamsey
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I read that mass curves space/time. But what is space that it can be curved? Is it some kind of substance? When it is explained that place a sphere on a sheet that is warped... But in reality what would it look like inn 3dimensions (4 including time) ?

THanks
 
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earamsey said:
I read that mass curves space/time. But what is space that it can be curved? Is it some kind of substance? When it is explained that place a sphere on a sheet that is warped... But in reality what would it look like inn 3dimensions (4 including time) ?

THanks

One of the problems I have with accepting GR & SR is that they require (as I understand it) that time and space are things that have autonomous existence. As far as I understand them time describes the rate of relative movement of things and space describes distance between the relative position of things. I can’t see how either are actual things that can be curved or dilated. If I’m wrong I would be happy if someone can explain how time and space are actual things.
 
All the statements in GR about spacetime can be translated into mundane sounding measurement-language, where observers who have been in various states of motion observe relativistic differences in the durations and lengths they measure. Since the relativity of measurements of length and duration is fundamentally part of the universe, it is convenient and elegant to ascribe the relativity to spacetime itself.
 
earamsey said:
I read that mass curves space/time. But what is space that it can be curved? Is it some kind of substance?
swerdna said:
I can’t see how either are actual things that can be curved or dilated. If I’m wrong I would be happy if someone can explain how time and space are actual things.
Curved spacetime is an abstract mathematical model, that describes the observations we make. Just like forces represented by vectors, which are also not "actual things".
earamsey said:
When it is explained that place a sphere on a sheet that is warped... But in reality what would it look like inn 3dimensions (4 including time) ?
Check out the links in https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=2046692&postcount=4" for visualizations of curved space time which include the crucial time dimension.
 
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The way I came to conclude that space was a something was by thinking about it one day.
I thought that if there was "nothing" between Earth and the moon, then they would be touching. If I asked someone what lyed between the Earth and the moon, a likely response would be "nothing but space". So, therefore, I thought, space must be something if it can separate objects.
 
Spacetime is simply the geometry of physics, i.e. the distance and direction between things in physics. If there is a large stress-energy tensor then the geometry is measurably curved, i.e. two straight lines may intersect twice.
 
It is possible that our "physical" space is a N-dimensional brane, curving in a more dimensional "fundamental", "coordinate", "mathematical" space.
So i is posisble that there are 2 different answers...
 

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