What is the Absolute Value of b(t)?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the absolute value of the function b(t) defined as b(t)=a(t)[1+e^{-j2\pi tT}]. Participants are examining different approaches to derive the absolute value, comparing their results with a textbook answer, and addressing potential misunderstandings in the application of mathematical principles related to complex numbers.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion over the derivation of the absolute value of b(t) and present their calculations, which differ from the textbook result.
  • One participant points out that the absolute value of a sum of complex numbers cannot be simplified as the sum of their absolute values, emphasizing the need to use the modulus definition: |a+bi|=√(a²+b²).
  • Another participant attempts to apply the modulus formula but arrives at a different expression than the textbook, suggesting a potential error in their calculations.
  • There is a correction regarding a term in the calculations, indicating that a squared term was omitted, which could affect the outcome.
  • Participants note that cos²(2πtT) + sin²(2πtT) = 1, which simplifies part of the expression, leading to a different formulation for |b(t)|.
  • One participant raises a question about the notation "tT," suggesting it may be unconventional and could imply a misunderstanding of the period associated with the sine and cosine functions.
  • A later reply clarifies that "T" actually represents frequency, which is 1/T, and acknowledges the potential for confusion in notation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct approach to finding the absolute value of b(t). Multiple competing views and interpretations of the mathematical principles remain evident throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some calculations are dependent on the correct application of the modulus of complex numbers, and there are unresolved mathematical steps that may lead to different interpretations of the results. The notation used for frequency and time may also introduce ambiguity in the discussion.

frenzal_dude
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I need to find the absolute value of b(t):

b(t)=a(t)[1+e^{-j2\pi tT}]

Here is the answer in the textbook:
\therefore \left | b(t) \right |=\left | a(t) \right |\sqrt{2(1+cos(2\pi tT)}2|cos(\pi tT)|

However I got a different answer when working it out, and can't understand how they got to that result from the textbook.
Here is my working out:

<br /> b(t)=a(t) + a(t)e^{-j2\pi tT}=a(t)+a(t)[cos(2\pi tT) - jsin(2\pi tT)]=a(t)+a(t)cos(2\pi tT)-a(t)jsin(2\pi tT)<br />
<br /> \therefore |b(t)|=|a(t)|+|a(t)cos(2\pi tT)|+|a(t)sin(2\pi tT)|<br />

Please let me know where I'm going wrong.
Thanks.
 
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frenzal_dude said:
I need to find the absolute value of b(t):

b(t)=a(t)[1+e^{-j2\pi tT}]

Here is the answer in the textbook:
\therefore \left | b(t) \right |=\left | a(t) \right |\sqrt{2(1+cos(2\pi tT)}2|cos(\pi tT)|

However I got a different answer when working it out, and can't understand how they got to that result from the textbook.
Here is my working out:

<br /> b(t)=a(t) + a(t)e^{-j2\pi tT}=a(t)+a(t)[cos(2\pi tT) - jsin(2\pi tT)]=a(t)+a(t)cos(2\pi tT)-a(t)jsin(2\pi tT)<br />
<br /> \therefore |b(t)|=|a(t)|+|a(t)cos(2\pi tT)|+|a(t)sin(2\pi tT)|<br />

Please let me know where I'm going wrong.
Thanks.

You can't do that. It's not true that |a|=|b|+|c|... It's not true at all. You need to use the very definition of modulus:

|a+bi|=\sqrt{a^2+b^2}
 
Thanks for the reply, I tried it with that formula, however I still don't get the same answer as the textbook. Here's my working out:

b(t)=a(t)+a(t)cos(2\pi tT)-a(t)jsin(2\pi tT)

\therefore |b(t)|=\sqrt{[a(t)+a(t)cos(2\pi tT)]^{2}+[a(t)sin(2\pi tT)]^{2}}

=\sqrt{a^{2}(t)+2a(t)cos(2\pi tT)+a^{2}(t)cos^{2}(2\pi tT)+a^{2}(t)sin^{2}(2\pi tT)}

=\sqrt{a^{2}(t)[1+2\sqrt{a(t)}cos(2\pi tT) + cos^{2}(2\pi tT)+sin^{2}(2\pi tT)]}

=|a(t)|\sqrt{2+2\sqrt{a(t)}cos(2\pi tT)}

=|a(t)|\sqrt{2[1+\sqrt{a(t)}cos(2\pi tT)]}
 
frenzal_dude said:
Thanks for the reply, I tried it with that formula, however I still don't get the same answer as the textbook. Here's my working out:

b(t)=a(t)+a(t)cos(2\pi tT)-a(t)jsin(2\pi tT)

\therefore |b(t)|=\sqrt{[a(t)+a(t)cos(2\pi tT)]^{2}+[a(t)sin(2\pi tT)]^{2}}

=\sqrt{a^{2}(t)+2a(t)cos(2\pi tT)+a^{2}(t)cos^{2}(2\pi tT)+a^{2}(t)sin^{2}(2\pi tT)}

That second term should have an a(t)^2.
 
Also cos^2(2\pi tT)+ sin^2(2\pi tT)= 1 so what you have reduces to
a(T)\sqrt{2(1+ cos(2\pi tT))}

By the way, this has nothing to do with your question but that "tT" looks very strange to me. If it were t/T, then your sin and cosine functions would have a period of T, which I would interpret as a period of time. The way you have it their period is 1/T. It strikes me as strange to all something with units of "1/time", T.
 
HallsofIvy said:
Also cos^2(2\pi tT)+ sin^2(2\pi tT)= 1 so what you have reduces to
a(T)\sqrt{2(1+ cos(2\pi tT))}

By the way, this has nothing to do with your question but that "tT" looks very strange to me. If it were t/T, then your sin and cosine functions would have a period of T, which I would interpret as a period of time. The way you have it their period is 1/T. It strikes me as strange to all something with units of "1/time", T.

You're completely right, the T there is actually frequency which is 1/T, I should have used a different letter other than T (which ofcourse usually means period).
 

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