What is the angle of NMC in triangle ABC with given measurements?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the angle NMC in triangle ABC, given specific angle measurements and points within the triangle. Participants explore various methods and reasoning to arrive at the angle measurement, engaging in both geometric and trigonometric approaches.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that using MC as a mirror leads to the conclusion that $\angle NMC=25^\circ$ based on symmetry and angle relationships.
  • Another participant presents a detailed trigonometric approach, defining $\alpha$ as $\angle NMC$ and deriving it through various triangle relationships, ultimately suggesting $\angle NMC \approx 87.4270^\circ$.
  • Corrections are made regarding the labeling of angles in diagrams, with one participant acknowledging an error that affected their calculations.
  • There is a recognition of different problem-solving approaches, with some participants expressing admiration for the simplicity of others' solutions compared to their own complex methods.
  • Clarifications about the notation used for angles are discussed, with participants seeking to understand the meaning of specific angle measurements in the context of the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the value of $\angle NMC$, as two distinct approaches yield different results. The discussion remains unresolved regarding which method or answer is correct.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the definitions and relationships used in their calculations, indicating potential dependencies on specific assumptions or interpretations of the triangle's configuration.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying geometry, particularly in the context of triangle properties and angle relationships, as well as individuals looking for different problem-solving strategies in mathematical reasoning.

anemone
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In the triangle ABC, we have $\angle ABC=100^\circ$, $\angle ACB=65^\circ$, $M\in AB$, $N\in AC$, $\angle MCB=55^\circ$ and $\angle NBC=80^\circ$. Find $\angle NMC$.
 
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anemone said:
In the triangle ABC, we have $\angle ABC=100^\circ$, $\angle ACB=65^\circ$, $M\in AB$, $N\in AC$, $\angle MCB=55^\circ$ and $\angle NBC=80^\circ$. Find $\angle NMC$.
$ \angle A=15^o$

using MC as a mirror we got triangle A' MC as a symetric image of triangle AMC

then it is very easy to see that :

$ \angle NMC=25^o=\angle A+(65^o - 55^o)$
 
Albert said:
$ \angle A=15^o$

using MC as a mirror we got triangle A' MC as a symetric image of triangle AMC

then it is very easy to see that :

$ \angle NMC=25^o=\angle A+(65^o - 55^o)$

Hi Albert, I want to thank you for participating in this problem but your answer doesn't match mine.

Here is my solution:
View attachment 697

First I let the angle NMC be $$\alpha$$.
Consider the triangle NPM,
$$\sin \alpha=\dfrac{NP}{MN}$$

Consider the triangle NCP,
$$\sin 55^{\circ}=\dfrac{NP}{CN}$$

$$\therefore NP=CN\sin 55^{\circ}$$

Now, since NP can be expressed as the function of CN, I will figure out a way to express MN in terms of CN because that is one of the valid method to find the measure of the angle $$\alpha$$.

Consider the triangle AMN,
$$\dfrac{MN}{\sin 15^{\circ}}=\dfrac{AM}{\sin (55+\alpha)^{\circ}}\implies$$ $$MN=\dfrac{AM\sin 15^{\circ}}{\sin (55+\alpha)^{\circ}}$$

But $$\dfrac{AM}{\sin 55^{\circ}}=\dfrac{CM}{\sin 15^{\circ}}$$ (from the triangle AMC)

and $$\dfrac{CM}{\sin 100^{\circ}}=\dfrac{BC}{\sin 70^{\circ}}$$ (from the triangle CMB)

Thus,

$$AM=\dfrac{CM\sin 55^{\circ}}{\sin 15^{\circ}}=\dfrac{BC\sin 100^{\circ}}{\sin 70^{\circ}}\cdot\dfrac{\sin 55^{\circ}}{\sin 15^{\circ}}$$ but $$\dfrac{BC}{\sin 35^{\circ}}=\dfrac{CN}{\sin 80^{\circ}}$$ (from the triangle BCN)

$$\therefore AM=\dfrac{CN\sin 35^{\circ}}{\sin 80^{\circ}}\cdot\dfrac{\sin 100^{\circ}}{\sin 70^{\circ}}\cdot\dfrac{\sin 55^{\circ}}{\sin 15^{\circ}}$$

or

$$MN=\dfrac{\sin 15^{\circ}\dfrac{CN\sin 35^{\circ}}{\sin 80^{\circ}}\cdot\dfrac{\sin 100^{\circ}}{\sin 70^{\circ}}\cdot\dfrac{\sin 55^{\circ}}{\sin 15^{\circ}}}{\sin (55+\alpha)^{\circ}}$$

We have now:
$$\sin \alpha=\dfrac{NP}{MN}$$

$$\sin \alpha=\dfrac{CN\sin 55^{\circ}}{\dfrac{\sin 15^{\circ}\dfrac{CN\sin 35^{\circ}}{\sin 80^{\circ}}\cdot\dfrac{\sin 100^{\circ}}{\sin 70^{\circ}}\cdot\dfrac{\sin 55^{\circ}}{\sin 15^{\circ}}}{\sin (55+\alpha)^{\circ}}}$$

Simplifying the above yields

$$\sin \alpha=2\cos35^{\circ}\sin (55+\alpha)^{\circ}$$

This gives$$\tan \alpha=\dfrac{2\cos35^{\circ}\sin55^{\circ}}{1-2\cos35^{\circ}\sin55^{\circ}}$$

Finally, we get $$\angle NMC=\alpha=87.4270^{\circ}$$

So Albert, who is right and who is wrong?:confused:

BTW, may I look at your diagram because I have a little hard time trying to figure out your solution, please?

Thanks.
 

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anemone:
Your diagram is not correct ,please check it

note :angle MCB=$55^o$,
but your diagram angle MCB=$10^o$
do it again ,I will post my solution later
 
Albert said:
anemone:
Your diagram is not correct ,please check it

note :angle MCB=$55^o$,
but your diagram angle MCB=$10^o$
do it again ,I will post my solution later

Yes, you're right, I labeled the angle incorrectly:mad::o and by redoing the problem, I found that $$\angle NMB=25^{\circ}$$.

Your approach must be one of the smartest one because you solved it by observation but I approached it using lots of messy equations and therefore, my hat is off to you, Albert!:cool:(Wink)
 
anemone said:
Your approach must be one of the smartest one because you solved it by observation but I approached it using lots of messy equations and therefore, my hat is off to you, Albert!

Ah, but you don't know how much paper and messy equations he spent before giving a short answer. ;)
 
yes before giving a short and smart solution ,I racked my brain,and spent much time thinking :)
View attachment 698
 

Attachments

  • Angle NMC.jpg
    Angle NMC.jpg
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Maybe off topic but what does exemple $\angle ABC=100^\circ$ means?
 
Petrus said:
Maybe off topic but what does exemple $\angle ABC=100^\circ$ means?

It's the angle at point B between the sides AB and BC.
To be honest, I was puzzling myself which angle was intended exactly, but looking at the other angles, I deduced that this is what was intended.
 
  • #10
Petrus said:
Maybe off topic but what does exemple $\angle ABC=100^\circ$ means?

Asking for clarification about a step taken or notation used is encouraged, as this is how we learn, and is not considered off-topic at all. :D
 

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