What is the Angular Frequency of Small Oscillations for This System?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the angular frequency of small oscillations for a mechanical system involving two masses, m1 and m2, with specific mass ratios. The original poster presents their findings related to the Lagrangian and equilibrium conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the use of the Lagrangian and the Euler-Lagrange equation, questioning the appropriateness of certain approximations for small angles. There are attempts to clarify the definitions of equilibrium and perturbations, as well as the implications of dimensional analysis.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing feedback on each other's reasoning and approaches. Some guidance has been offered regarding the correct treatment of angles and perturbations, but there is no explicit consensus on the methods to be used.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of confusion regarding the assumptions about small angles and the definitions of equilibrium, which may affect the application of various equations and approximations. Participants are navigating through these constraints as they refine their approaches.

peripatein
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Hi,

Homework Statement


I was given the setup in the attachment and was asked to find the angular frequency of small oscillations around the equilibrium. m1=m; m2=√3m


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


I have found L = 1/2*(3+√3)*mR2[itex]\dot{θ}[/itex]2 + mgRcosθ+√3mgRsinθ
and the point of equilibrium to be at tgθ=m2/m2=√3
Do I now substitute cosθ≈1-1/2[itex]\dot{θ}[/itex]2 and sinθ≈θ
and then write down Euler-Lagrange?
 

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peripatein said:
Do I now substitute cosθ≈1-1/2[itex]\dot{θ}[/itex]2 and sinθ≈θ
The approximation you're thinking of is cosθ≈1-1/2[itex]\θ[/itex]2 for small θ. It's not with a [itex]\dot{θ}[/itex] in it, and it's not for what may be not a very small θ.
If θ is defined by tanθ=m2/m2=√3, you want to consider a small perturbation dθ from there. Try putting θ+dθ in your torque equation.
 
I am not using any torque equations. I found the Lagrangian and was now thinking of using the Euler-Lagrange relation. In any case, could it be that k=second partial derivative of potential at point of equilibrium=2mgR
and hence angular frequency is sqrt(k/m)=sqrt(2gR)?
 
Wait, dimensional analysis indicates I am wrong, doesn't it?
 
I'd appreciate your feedback on the following attempt:
V = -mgR(cosθ + √3sinθ) ≈ -mgR(1 - 0.5θ2 + √3θ)
First, is that the correct approach?
Second, do I now subsitute my θ of equilibrium in ∂2V/∂q2 to get k in ω2=k/m?
Third, how do I find m in ω2=k/m? Is it by substituting my θ of equilibrium in the approximation -mgR(1 - 0.5θ2 + √3θ)?
 
peripatein said:
I'd appreciate your feedback on the following attempt:
V = -mgR(cosθ + √3sinθ) ≈ -mgR(1 - 0.5θ2 + √3θ)
First, is that the correct approach?
No, you didn't understand what I wrote before.
θ cannot be assumed to be small, so you cannot use those approximations. Find the equilibrium value of θ, then express θ as that value plus a small perturbation angle. Then you can use approximations for trig functions of the small perturbation.
 

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