What is the connection between dreams and consciousness in the Cartesian Theory?

[Rader]

Why do we dream?, has caught my attention. When I read a book, four things can happen. I can read out loud and then stop talking and hear myself keep on reading, remembering all that I read. (Conscious mind) The second is to read for several lines or pages or minutes or hours and not remember what I read. (Unconscious mind) The third is to read with my conscious mind and be dreaming with my unconscious mind. The fourth is to be dreaming with my unconscious mind while reading and analyzing with my conscious mind. This has been verified by others who have the same experience, therefore there is two selves, inside of every one I. When I sleep and when I am awake I perceive both also, in both states of mind. When I have a lucid dream the conscious I, is always directing the show. When I drive a car after many years of experience my unconscious mind drives the car. How is it that anything exists? Which side is reality? Are dreams messages from ourselves to ourselves. Does dreaming make matter conscious or is matter already conscious? Do all things dream from atoms to humans? Do we dream to create self? Do we dream to create consciousness? Why do we remember almost nothing, feelings create emotions and emotions are all that we remember? If space time and energy describe the conscious mind then dreaming describes the unconscious mind. Maybe we are dreams capable of dreaming inside the great dream. If we are dreaming then the future also dictates what happens in the present. Dreaming is sort of like a great thought that is like a movie, if you run it backwards the future dictates the present and the present the past.

 

[Iacchus32]

Matter is merely derived from energy, which is its source. Whereas when we dream, our "conscious energy" -- thoughts, feelings, etc. -- establishes contact with that source.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by Iacchus32
Matter is merely derived from energy, which is its source. Whereas when we dream, our "conscious energy" -- thoughts, feelings, etc. -- establishes contact with that source.

In the objective reality matter and energy are the same but have different manifestations. I do not like the word derived it implies something else, converted is more appropriate. When we dream we are subconcious. Conscious is when we make full use of the five sences and make contact with the physical world. When we dream if anything, it would be subconscious energy. Energy and matter are words for the objective reality. Consciousness is beyond those words although when it manifests itself in the objective world you could use the term energy.

 

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

Cycles of Matter/Antimatter

Dreams/Waking Reality = Matter/Antimatter cycle

In other words, we alternate between the two realities in a flux-like and constant state. Much like when a film or cartoon is watched at normal projected speed, it seems to be a flowing and complete reality. When you look at the still frames of the film, you find there are 26 frames per second, and between each frame containing a still picture, is a black frame. The black frame is never perceived at normal perception, yet it exists, lying hidden between the perceivable frames.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by Nommos Prime (Dogon)
Dreams/Waking Reality = Matter/Antimatter cycle

In other words, we alternate between the two realities in a flux-like and constant state. Much like when a film or cartoon is watched at normal projected speed, it seems to be a flowing and complete reality. When you look at the still frames of the film, you find there are 26 frames per second, and between each frame containing a still picture, is a black frame. The black frame is never perceived at normal perception, yet it exists, lying hidden between the perceivable frames.

The objective world we live in, is up down, left right, matter antimatter, dream state wake state. Or better stated the objective world we live in sometimes. For the dream state is not the objective world. Consciousness moves between the dream and wake state. WHY?
In the objective world duality exists to maintain balance and order. But balance and order seems to have a direction which we call evolution. Mind body and spirit is evolving. WHY? does the objective world evolve? Dreaming involves what the 5 sences perceived in the objective day. The next day we have evolved, in one night it is not easy to see but the passing of a lifetime, it is very evident. So are dreaming ID must analize, organize, order and restructure the next day of our ego.

 

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

Dreams Of An Eidolon

“Consciousness moves between the dream and wake state. WHY?”
It doesn’t. Merely our perception of consciousness moves.

“In the objective world duality exists to maintain balance and order.”
No, it exists simply for the potential of union and dissolution. Or (as Crowley would say, “0=2”).

“Dreaming involves what the 5 sences perceived in the objective day.”
It doesn’t. Although your senses may contribute to your “dreams”, they do not form them. Eg. My friend as been blind since birth, he has never seen. He still dreams lucidly like me, even to the point of being able to describe in such VIVID detail colours, shapes, even the Universe! Even those who are deaf and blind dream.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by Nommos Prime (Dogon)
“Consciousness moves between the dream and wake state. WHY?”
It doesn’t. Merely our perception of consciousness moves.

How can you give the quality of consciousness to perception as if it was consciousness? Perception is a objective reality word to describe recognition and interpretation of sensory stimuli based chiefly on memory.

“In the objective world duality exists to maintain balance and order.”
No, it exists simply for the potential of union and dissolution. Or (as Crowley would say, “0=2”).

Potencial of union is equality and dissolution is the small move out of balance until equality is found again and evolution advances. 1 plus 1 equals >2<

“Dreaming involves what the 5 sences perceived in the objective day.”
It doesn’t. Although your senses may contribute to your “dreams”, they do not form them.

Dreaming involves what the 5 sences perceived in the objective day, is one of its functions. The dreamer connects not only his objective information but information from collective consciousness and genetic consciousness. The dreamer evolves in three ways from 1> base genetic consciousness of the entities evolutionary level. 2> imput from environment, five sences. 3> interacting of collective consciousness

Eg. My friend as been blind since birth, he has never seen. He still dreams lucidly like me, even to the point of being able to describe in such VIVID detail colours, shapes, even the Universe! Even those who are deaf and blind dream.

I agree they do dream. Your friend can dream and be blind for the same reason that my friend has no leg and can feel it from time to time. Consciousness is not only a biological funtion of sencses and brain. It is one of its functions in the objective world.

Yes we all dream. Remeber things in detail, far from it. We can remember shapes and colors and emotions, a far fetch from what is considered detail. Try describing your last dream and then look on your monitor screen and start describing all the detail on it. Quite a difference you see. There is a subjective and objective reality.

Back to the question>Mind body and spirit is evolving objectively. WHY?

 

[Hegira]

Originally posted by Rader
Back to the question>Mind body and spirit is evolving objectively. WHY?
[/B]

Because we are all in a paramistic state of apoplexy! This means that we have so many unresolved problems within our personality structure that it makes it difficult for us to attain decisions in moments of intensified emotional stress... Therefore we (humans) and other lifeforms necessitate a respective functionality of dreams so that we better maintain our illusive sanities and our conceived/perceived realities.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by Hegira
Because we are all in a paramistic state of apoplexy! This means that we have so many unresolved problems within our personality structure that it makes it difficult for us to attain decisions in moments of intensified emotional stress... Therefore we (humans) and other lifeforms necessitate a respective functionality of dreams so that we better maintain our illusive sanities and our conceived/perceived realities.

So then we dream to integrate, release stress and maintain our sanities. For what we were yesterday we are not today. Over a long time line there appears progress but on a short time period there are valleys. But what of those who waste there dreams and do not progress. At the end of a lifetime we are surely different than at the beginning.

`Freud`Dreams are wish fulfilling, but the level of the wish is not transparent.

 

[Hegira]

Originally posted by Rader
But what of those who waste there dreams and do not progress. At the end of a lifetime we are surely different than at the beginning.

Progression becomes reflective of our constant deterioration. Whether we consciously acknowledge or become aware of our subconscious processes or we simply ignore and fade them as we open our eyes, we indeed change day by day and not a thing can ever remain the same nor can anything ever repeat exactly as it may have before... It is this constant state of change that has troubled me during my brief life, thus far...

To be blatant about my point: I felt as though I was prepared to fight and die yesterday, today I'm not so sure and tomorrow I may not even care! If I live to be old and gray; I may change so drastically from my ideals of yesterday or even today to the point that I would rather accept fading than eternal life. Personnally I would rather pass on with the belief that my dreams had their respective meaning, than to go senile and not remember anything that I've done my entire life!

What a tangent, but still relative I feel... ANY comments!?

 

[Hegira]

Originally posted by Rader
Your friend can dream and be blind for the same reason that my friend has no leg and can feel it from time to time.

Yes we all dream. Remeber things in detail, far from it. We can remember shapes and colors and emotions, a far fetch from what is considered detail. Try describing your last dream and then look on your monitor screen and start describing all the detail on it. Quite a difference you see. There is a subjective and objective reality.

I believe the ghost limb and ability for the blind to dream lucidly not to be totally related, for the sake of argument at least. There's a large difference between feeling something that is no longer there and percieving visions that have never entered the brain due to direct or typical observation.
Your friend still feels his lost leg because his brain had developed communication through his neural network, however, even though that link was severed his brain still periodically perceives its presence or lack of presence because it continues to send signals and awaiting a response. Consciously he knows it is gone, but subconciously his brain wonders "WHY" or "WHERE".

On the other hand blindness from birth sharpens the other senses as instinctive survival. Before our "civilization" blind infants would have been allowed to perish due to their handicap, but today they are given not only the chance to live but to be just as successful of a contribution to society if not more. Those that are able to truly develope themselves because of positive and productive support are quite capable of percieving their surroundings as most of us. Imagine the power of sound, echos, coin drops, etc... when you are not able to rely on your sight. Take a look around! Just because other's cannot see the things that you see doesn't mean that they aren't able to percieve them. This goes for color, brightness, beauty, and many other "words" that we take for granted. Color can stand for hot/cold or emotion... Brightness for intensity... Beauty for Symmetria... And so on.

Without going further on another tangent; I see no reason why the blind wouldn't be able to have more imaginatively lucid dreams than the normal lay person. There are so many languages besides the vocal, visual, emotional, mathematical. But all seem to come together in the interpretation and understanding of our dream states.

 

[one_raven]

Wrong Question...

I think the question should not be "Why do we dream?", rather "Do we dream?".

I read a theory a long time ago that we do not dream at all, and our minds are completely at rest when asleep.
It said the "dreams" did not exist until we woke up.
When we awake, we remember these random impulses and our waking mind applies meaning to them.

I think a more likely scenario is that when we enter a state of unconsciousness, our conscious minds "rest".
Without conscious observation, our brain activity would consist of seemingly random neurostimulation (through our 5 senses, I suppose) that make no sense and are not "thoughts".

When we are in a state which is not as deep of a sleep (such as REM sleep, just falling asleep or just waking up) or our sensory stimulation is changed beyond simple static "background noise" (such as when music starts playing, it gets too cold for you to remain sleeping restfully or a loud truck just drove by) our conscious minds are marginally active.
In this condition, our conscious minds are still resting, but semi aware.
Our minds would be little more than observers, without the necessary capacity to analyze and interpret our observations cognizantly.
Those seemingly random impulses would make no sense to us at all, so our minds, in an effort to understand our surroundings, simply apply meaning to them.
Which would explain a few things:
Why our dreams make little sense rationally.
Why they seem to reflect recent thoughts.
Why we rarely remember our dreams.
Why the ones we do remember are usually the ones right before waking.
Why, when we are 146 years old, live in a purple cow and speak Venutian, we are not surprised at all, and don't even realize it is a dream.


When we are in a semi-conscious state (such as in a lucid dream or High) our conscious minds are more active, therefore we have limited, but some, control over our higher faculties (including reason).
We are more than observers, but how much power of rational thought we have varies.

 

[Hegira]

Originally posted by one_raven
"Do we dream?".


Why our dreams make little sense rationally.
Why they seem to reflect recent thoughts.
Why we rarely remember our dreams.
Why the ones we do remember are usually the ones right before waking.
Why, when we are 146 years old, live in a purple cow and speak Venutian, we are not surprised at all, and don't even realize it is a dream.

Without a doubt, I believe in my dreams and their existence! True they are not always rational, though I don't expect them to be. However, I've gained a much better understanding of myself and have increased my life experience due to my personal interpretation of them.

I am not always able to remember my dreams, because much of their purpose to me is to assist me in letting go of unnecessary data that I become stimulated with on a daily basis. Also, as soon as I open my eyes, I am immediately starting to take in "new" conscious information. However, I've learned methods for incubating and recalling my dreams throughout the night, by keeping my eyes closed and returning to my most comfortable positions.

But as I said before... Getting older seems to merge these two realms and one day I may be a "purple cow" and not remember being a rock climber at the California Pennicles at age 21!

Originally posted by one_raven
When we are in a semi-conscious state (such as in a lucid dream or High) our conscious minds are more active, therefore we have limited, but some, control over our higher faculties (including reason).
We are more than observers, but how much power of rational thought we have varies. [/B]

I agree... When we experience a "high" we are activating parts of our brains that are normally more dormant, and are able to be active observers, and our ability to recall dreams decreases since we are consciously processing and discarding more information than usual. We seem to not need the full original function of dreaming as we would with a sober mind.

Yet with a clear mind and a healthy body, we can achieve great things on both sides of these realms and we may finally learn better ways of gaining more control of ourselves; whether consciously or subconsciously.

 

[one_raven]

Originally posted by Hegira
Without a doubt

How can you be so sure?

Originally posted by Hegira
I've gained a much better understanding of myself and have increased my life experience due to my personal interpretation of them.

Of course.
But that would be true with either of the given scenarios above, as well.
Whether they are dreams, or they are subconsciously applied meanings to meaningless random activity, it is still our subconscious mind coming that is giving them meaning, therefore a window into our subconscious mind (if we actually do interpret them correctly).

Originally posted by Hegira
I agree... When we experience a "high" we are activating parts of our brains that are normally more dormant, and are able to be active observers

I don't think so.
When high, we don't activate parts of the mind that are normally dormant.
It is exactly the opposite.
The rational, analytical parts of our mind, that are usually active and (depending on the person) have some level of contro over our thoughts and actions, are lying dormant.

Originally posted by Hegira
Yet with a clear mind and a healthy body, we can achieve great things on both sides of these realms and we may finally learn better ways of gaining more control of ourselves; whether consciously or subconsciously.

I completely agree.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by one_raven
I think the question should not be "Why do we dream?", rather "Do we dream?".

I read a theory a long time ago that we do not dream at all, and our minds are completely at rest when asleep.
It said the "dreams" did not exist until we woke up.
When we awake, we remember these random impulses and our waking mind applies meaning to them.

We dream when we are in REM state, rapid eye movement, although during rest periods also. I think that has been established.

I think a more likely scenario is that when we enter a state of unconsciousness, our conscious minds "rest".
Without conscious observation, our brain activity would consist of seemingly random neurostimulation (through our 5 senses, I suppose) that make no sense and are not "thoughts".

The dream state is broken up into several periods of REM and rest periods.

When we are in a state which is not as deep of a sleep (such as REM sleep, just falling asleep or just waking up) or our sensory stimulation is changed beyond simple static "background noise" (such as when music starts playing, it gets too cold for you to remain sleeping restfully or a loud truck just drove by) our conscious minds are marginally active.
In this condition, our conscious minds are still resting, but semi aware.
Our minds would be little more than observers, without the necessary capacity to analyze and interpret our observations cognizantly.
Those seemingly random impulses would make no sense to us at all, so our minds, in an effort to understand our surroundings, simply apply meaning to them.
Which would explain a few things:
Why our dreams make little sense rationally.
Why they seem to reflect recent thoughts.
Why we rarely remember our dreams.
Why the ones we do remember are usually the ones right before waking.
Why, when we are 146 years old, live in a purple cow and speak Venutian, we are not surprised at all, and don't even realize it is a dream.

Dreams can usually be rememberd the best when waking during any REM period.

When we are in a semi-conscious state (such as in a lucid dream or High) our conscious minds are more active, therefore we have limited, but some, control over our higher faculties (including reason).

Like driving a car after many years of experience. Did you ever wonder how did i drive for 12 hours and not get board? Dreaming

We are more than observers, but how much power of rational thought we have varies.

It does seem that even during the day a small part of it is given to rational thought. How long can you really keep a conscious thought while reading, try it, you will not last long.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by Hegira
But all seem to come together in the interpretation and understanding of our dream states.

This is a dream that i had after an argument with my son on trying to be more helpfull.

A big horse fell in a deep wide stone wall, well. I tried to pull out the horse with all my strength with two thin ropes. I could not get him out and asked Ricky to help me. He would not help me. The horse cried out and died through my chest. I felt this death through my chest and cried like a horse.

 

[Hegira]

It may be one of my human frailties that I tend to apply signifigance to randomocity, ironicy, and I try to relate meaningful symbolism to the rational or irrational... However, no matter how anyone seems to percieve things, it comes back to "in the eye of the beholder".

I agree with much of your logic on this, but much of it still doesn't compute with my personal reasoning.

All I can relate is what I believe I've experienced, just as you (Rader) are relating what you've contemplated or experienced. Either way, neither of us are ever really wrong, though both of us may be equal fools for even pondering such things. Everything may be a dream or nothing may be conscious. But both seem very real when they occur to me.

--------
"It does seem that even during the day a small part of it is given to rational thought. How long can you really keep a conscious thought while reading, try it, you will not last long."
-------


A.D.D. in its many minor or major forms can possibly attribute, though most of the people that take part in this entire forum are evidently of "Creative Minds" and exhibit multi-intelligence to include Existential, Mathematical, etc... We tend to daydream and lose our ability to focus for extended periods of time during applied concentration. Simply put, we think more than much of the regular crowd, where as, someone that exemplifies Athletic Intelligence may not think as much, but has a hieghtened physical awareness.

Daydreaming is another way for us to make sense of what we are experiencing and it is just as necessary as subconscious dreaming.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by Hegira

Daydreaming is another way for us to make sense of what we are experiencing and it is just as necessary as subconscious dreaming.

I have noticed my dreaming patterns during the day and at night have changed from posting on this forum. I have been monitoring my dreams for some time. If i could divide them into a group, i would say then, relax, work and debate dreams would be the subsets. My dreams are centered on debate now. I am consciously aware while dreaming at certain times in a subconsious state. I am aware of my conscious mind debating my unsconsious, to the point of asking questions. Its like the engagement of two of me inside of me.

 

[Hegira]

Originally posted by Rader
I have noticed my dreaming patterns during the day and at night have changed from posting on this forum. I have been monitoring my dreams for some time. If i could divide them into a group, i would say then, relax, work and debate dreams would be the subsets. My dreams are centered on debate now. I am consciously aware while dreaming at certain times in a subconsious state. I am aware of my conscious mind debating my unsconsious, to the point of asking questions. Its like the engagement of two of me inside of me.

My dreams and their content are constantly changing, as well... I've gone through various phases with my awareness and control of them. When I was younger and I began to liberate myself of much of my influentual environment, I gained more conscious control of my unconscious states. At those times I was able to ask some of my most puzzling "Life" or "Afterlife" kinds of questions with (what I felt) astounding results and answers.

At other times I actually choose to let go of control and use my dreams for release and relaxation without so much of a critical attitude of trying to relate to symbolism and rationality. I tend to find enjoyment out of either approach, but I can't state that I'm always aware of every event, theme, detail, etc... I doubt that anybody could, or at least I've never known of anyone. However, I've never met anyone that could remember every single moment of their conscious lives, either. I no longer believe that any of us should.

As I've taken on more responsibility and grown into my personal unwinding path, I have lost a lot of the control that I once possessed within the second realm. I more so ride the tide and somewhat actively/openly observe scenarios and results, knowing that what happens is relative to my past experience, present daily events, and future hopeful endeavors or outcomes.

I still take the helm when I feel it is necessary for my conscious interaction, and ask questions when I find the oppurtunity that I may actually gain another conscious awareness from within my own "soul" (much like personal revelation), but I don't have the troubles of subconscious manipulation that I had to learn during the younger years of my life. Many times I have felt as though I make contact with other dimensions or the afterlife, though I really believe that these interactions are still with deeper parts of me.


I just found this forum recently, by chance, though I surely wish that I had come across it sooner. It seems that I drive most people nuts when I try to share ANY of these subjects and expect a decent discussion. No one in my family or near-close relationships seem to care about discussing or sharing the ponderings of creative or existential minds. Many that I have met either deny awareness of their dreams or try to claim that they don't dream at all. But I imagine that those with hardened shackles upon their lives from our "societies" would find it harder to understand concepts of freedom and therefore would not quest as deeply within themselves to gain more personal understanding and better control of their own lives, as well as dreams!


--------------
I try to think of everything, only to find that I don't KNOW anything!

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by Hegira
My dreams and their content are constantly changing, as well... I've gone through various phases with my awareness and control of them. When I was younger and I began to liberate myself of much of my influentual environment, I gained more conscious control of my unconscious states. At those times I was able to ask some of my most puzzling "Life" or "Afterlife" kinds of questions with (what I felt) astounding results and answers.

Self awareness has levels in the person in the life and in the situation.

At other times I actually choose to let go of control and use my dreams for release and relaxation without so much of a critical attitude of trying to relate to symbolism and rationality. I tend to find enjoyment out of either approach, but I can't state that I'm always aware of every event, theme, detail, etc... I doubt that anybody could, or at least I've never known of anyone. However, I've never met anyone that could remember every single moment of their conscious lives, either. I no longer believe that any of us should.

When stressed dream not once but twice.

As I've taken on more responsibility and grown into my personal unwinding path, I have lost a lot of the control that I once possessed within the second realm. I more so ride the tide and somewhat actively/openly observe scenarios and results, knowing that what happens is relative to my past experience, present daily events, and future hopeful endeavors or outcomes.

Thats the individual evolving, that's the dream purpose.

I still take the helm when I feel it is necessary for my conscious interaction, and ask questions when I find the oppurtunity that I may actually gain another conscious awareness from within my own "soul" (much like personal revelation), but I don't have the troubles of subconscious manipulation that I had to learn during the younger years of my life. Many times I have felt as though I make contact with other dimensions or the afterlife, though I really believe that these interactions are still with deeper parts of me.

My quest is to know the last WHY? answered to my satisfaction even though it may not be to others.

I just found this forum recently, by chance, though I surely wish that I had come across it sooner. It seems that I drive most people nuts when I try to share ANY of these subjects and expect a decent discussion. No one in my family or near-close relationships seem to care about discussing or sharing the ponderings of creative or existential minds. Many that I have met either deny awareness of their dreams or try to claim that they don't dream at all. But I imagine that those with hardened shackles upon their lives from our "societies" would find it harder to understand concepts of freedom and therefore would not quest as deeply within themselves to gain more personal understanding and better control of their own lives, as well as dreams!

All humans talk, read and write.
PF posters talk, read, write and think.

--------------
I try to think of everything, only to find that I don't KNOW anything!

The more you learn the less you know.
The answer to one question makes two answers.
Its very hard to comprehend that we will never know the last WHY? but even harder to comprehend that we will.

Thats the individual evolving, that's the dream purpose..

 

[pelastration]

Dreaming is realated to theta brain waves. During the day we use beta and alpha waves. Theta are longer and slower waves. So during dreams we make different associations (combinations) and deeper information shows up.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by pelastration
Dreaming is realated to theta brain waves. During the day we use beta and alpha waves. Theta are longer and slower waves. So during dreams we make different associations (combinations) and deeper information shows up.

I have read this also. I was going to start to post some mechanical info about dreaming but since you read my mind, let's discuss this point.

Could it be said that theta brain waves relate to our ID and Beta and alfa relate to our EGO. This transition occurs when moving between the dream and wake state. Deeper information is inbeded in theta waves and current information in beta y alfa. Then accessing the ID while dreaming could evolve the EGO upon waking.

What is meant by deeper information? Recorded information or meaning to it?

 

[Hegira]

I'm also familiar with this technical side, and I too think that they should and probably are related directly to the ID and EGO. For a few years I've done some music and alter-audio mixing with respect to Brainwave Synchronization. This has been fascinating to me, though I haven't found or taken much oppurtunity to have many others review some of my "finished" compositions. My main motivation for this was to have others experience my music ideas and to induce conscious, as well as subconscious results. The other reason was that I've been a partial insomniac for years.

When I was attending a language institute in CA, I started using a Theta and Alpha-wave player. It was rather simple in that it would help me to transition from wake states to a better sleep state, then back. Kind of like self-hypnosis. I could set the timing, so that I could purposefully manipulate my Biological Clock and "reset" its timer.

Now, I haven't used it for a few years, but since then, I've worked on including some of these wave patterns within my own personal music. However, this kind of thing has become widely used within the media and most marketing schemes and most people never realize that stores, commercials, movies, etc... are implementing such kinds of subconscious suggestion. Some of you may be familiar with the "antfarm" scenario involving hard rock vs soft music!? Most shopping facilities also use softer, slower music so that you don't feel so inclined to hurry and thus browse more... Are they Sneaky suckers or smart business owners!? I guess it doesn't really matter if no one ever cares to notice!

 

[pelastration]

Originally posted by Rader
Could it be said that theta brain waves relate to our ID and Beta and alfa relate to our EGO

Hi Rader,

It depends what we understand as EGO or ID. Have you for example Freud's EGO in mind?
Is EGO our essence ... or less deep?
IMO alpha and beta waves are related to DIRECT responses on stimulations of our senses (nerve network including our sensors). Ie. Light impulse in the eye ... hé there is a fast red car. Hear a string of words ... collect available information and ... giving an answer. Speak about a person ... visualize his face.
Thus Stimulus and direct response.

Originally posted by Rader
This transition occurs when moving between the dream and wake state. Deeper information is inbeded in theta waves and current information in beta y alfa. Then accesing the ID while dreaming could evolve the EGO upon waking.

"Deeper information is inbeded in theta waves" : OK , but maybe better: Deeper information is transferred by theta waves. Here our sensors don't play a role anymore. Here the stimulus comes for experiences, like movie seen that evening, but also images from the past (ie. five years old) and even information related to genes and DNA (deep human history, Jung's unconsciousness: archetypes, etc.).

Theta waves are considered to connect also non-local knowledge (cfr. meditation by tibetan monks, Indian yoga masters, ...). 'Enlightened persons' will use 'consciously' all waves at the same time. When we dream the beta and alpha waves slow down and then the more fable (weak) theta waves are noticed.

In my cosmological concept these are layers which interact constantly. (see three layers in my avatar).
So Consciousness (is) are continuos changes of priorities of frames (or vibrating layers). Sense "attention" is one parameter which will influence the priority threshold. But i.e. hormonal production is another. When the attention (focus by brain) is relaxing ... then associations are made more randomly ... but also fundamental fear(s) can come up creating a 'repeating nightmare'.

So IMO ALL frames are active at the same moment. Depending from the surrounding (hyperactive, active, sleep, anger, meditation ... cfr. brainwave type alpha, beta, theta, delta) the focus will shift automatically (random) or controlled by concentration ( priority).

This means also that our 'EGO' contains all elements of available and hidden information at the same time.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by Hegira
I'm also familiar with this technical side, and I too think that they should and probably are related directly to the ID and EGO. For a few years I've done some music and alter-audio mixing with respect to Brainwave Synchronization. This has been fascinating to me, though I haven't found or taken much oppurtunity to have many others review some of my "finished" compositions. My main motivation for this was to have others experience my music ideas and to induce conscious, as well as subconscious results. The other reason was that I've been a partial insomniac for years.

What would this muisic sound like? How do brainwaves relate to muscial notes? How is this done?

When I was attending a language institute in CA, I started using a Theta and Alpha-wave player. It was rather simple in that it would help me to transition from wake states to a better sleep state, then back. Kind of like self-hypnosis. I could set the timing, so that I could purposefully manipulate my Biological Clock and "reset" its timer.

You brought up an interesting point. The biological clock would be different on other planets, than it is here on Earth. Mars would be very similar to our biological clock, only living on Mars you would have twice and much time in a year to dream , as a Martian year is more than twice as long as a Earth Year.
The biological clock in our system, is controlled by many factors of which sunlight, length of day, imput both physical and mental and body chemistry all take part, in how and when we sleep and dream.

Now, I haven't used it for a few years, but since then, I've worked on including some of these wave patterns within my own personal music. However, this kind of thing has become widely used within the media and most marketing schemes and most people never realize that stores, commercials, movies, etc... are implementing such kinds of subconscious suggestion. Some of you may be familiar with the "antfarm" scenario involving hard rock vs soft music!? Most shopping facilities also use softer, slower music so that you don't feel so inclined to hurry and thus browse more... Are they Sneaky suckers or smart business owners!? I guess it doesn't really matter if no one ever cares to notice!

Its called "Big Brother Advertising" Thats why i zap to another channel, when commercial come on.

Overeating, smoking, drinking, stress all have physiological links to good sleep and dreaming.

 

[Rader]

Purpose of dreaming

Originally posted by pelastration
Hi Rader,

It depends what we understand as EGO or ID. Have you for example Freud's EGO in mind?

Fred Allen Wolf

Is EGO our essence ... or less deep?
IMO alpha and beta waves are related to DIRECT responses on stimulations of our senses (nerve network including our sensors). Ie. Light impulse in the eye ... hé there is a fast red car. Hear a string of words ... collect available information and ... giving an answer. Speak about a person ... visualize his face.
Thus Stimulus and direct response.

"Deeper information is inbeded in theta waves" : OK , but maybe better: Deeper information is transferred by theta waves. Here our sensors don't play a role anymore. Here the stimulus comes for experiences, like movie seen that evening, but also images from the past (ie. five years old) and even information related to genes and DNA (deep human history, Jung's unconsciousness: archetypes, etc.).

Theta waves are considered to connect also non-local knowledge (cfr. meditation by tibetan monks, Indian yoga masters, ...). 'Enlightened persons' will use 'consciously' all waves at the same time. When we dream the beta and alpha waves slow down and then the more fable (weak) theta waves are noticed.

In my cosmological concept these are layers which interact constantly. (see three layers in my avatar).
So Consciousness (is) are continuos changes of priorities of frames (or vibrating layers). Sense "attention" is one parameter which will influence the priority threshold. But i.e. hormonal production is another. When the attention (focus by brain) is relaxing ... then associations are made more randomly ... but also fundamental fear(s) can come up creating a 'repeating nightmare'.

So IMO ALL frames are active at the same moment. Depending from the surrounding (hyperactive, active, sleep, anger, meditation ... cfr. brainwave type alpha, beta, theta, delta) the focus will shift automatically (random) or controlled by concentration ( priority).

This means also that our 'EGO' contains all elements of available and hidden information at the same time.

This i wrtote long before we meet.

We dream from birth to death in many ways. It seems to be that the purpose of dreaming is multifunctional. As each dream day goes by we change. We evolve our ego into what we are and it is constantly changing by our Id dreaming, what was input into it the day priori. Our Id processes memory and our ego expresses our evolving self. Dreams reflect our individual and yet global strategy to survive and evolve to a greater consciousness. We dream in REM to survive and refresh memory to evolve. Is it that we are evolving to an awareness of ourselves to all selves? Will we one day evolve enough to see or be the whole universe. Every consciousness seems to be part of a greater consciousness. My self reflects my own consciousness and yourself reflect yours. Yet there is synchronicity between individual consciousnesses. There are many examples. If dreaming affects our ego evolving it must reflect the symptoms in our body of what has to be changed. The body symptoms and illness are as much a pattern of a person life as his dreams. The Id and the Ego have to be in all things as so does consciousness, mind and free will. First there must be an observer or creator. In our material world there has to be a wave function moving forward >possible event< and a wave function moving backward >possible event< to make a connection, which is consciousness. In order for the objective world to have come into existence, in our universe, in the beginning, an observer of the first moment of objective consciousness was present to see the crash, of that first wave function. As time progressed from the first wave function crashing until the present, it is possible to conceive, how growth through evolution of individual to universal consciousness occurred. How and why myths, patterns, groups, ideologies, religions, nations and races, appear and disappear. Dreaming collectively is how it happens. We are then, all dreamers inside the big dream.

 

[Hegira]

Originally posted by Rader

What would this muisic sound like? How do brainwaves relate to muscial notes? How is this done?

My music isn't really any different than anything you might hear on the radio, though it's simply unique because of my personal collective influences. Musical expression picks up where the limitations of spoken language become insufficient and feable. IMO, music is a truer form of universal communication. Try to imagine your life without the existence of music or any sense of rhythm. I'd say that it's extremely relative!

What I'm doing is bringing my understanding of how my mind and body operates, and tweaking my sound mixes so that those that listen to it not only hear it, but experience it. I'm using all the resources readily available to me in order to better express myself and how I feel, to the world or whoever. Such as surround sound, background alpha/theta wave transmissions, suggestive anticipations for fluidly flowing transitions and tempo changes, synchronized and harmonized high/low EQ enhancement, pitch benders, and basically anything and everything I come across.

In a nutshell, most of these tools are used for mastering audio, and the normal musician would rather have someone else deal with the tediousness of tinkering with wave files for hours on end. Though, I haven't the finances to afford help in that area, so I'm learning and doing it myself. Besides it puts my sleepless hours to a productive challenge, as well as bringing me to that special meditative realm between the "Here and There", and it helps me hold together though I don't often achieve productive dream states.

You brought up an interesting point. The biological clock would be different on other planets, than it is here on Earth.
The biological clock in our system, is controlled by many factors of which sunlight, length of day, imput both physical and mental and body chemistry all take part, in how and when we sleep and dream.

Our 24 hr cycle is known as the Circadian Rhythm.

Its called "Big Brother Advertising" Thats why i zap to another channel, when commercial come on.

I usually just get a kick out of 'em. But for the most part I simply don't watch TV.

Overeating, smoking, drinking, stress all have physiological links to good sleep and dreaming.

Stress/Anxiety are my main issues... Particularly my dissatisfaction with my surroundings and inability to communicate with people a bit more like myself, which is another reason why I'm glad I found this forum.

In order for the objective world to have come into existence, in our universe, in the beginning, an observer of the first moment of objective consciousness was present to see the crash, of that first wave function. As time progressed from the first wave function crashing until the present, it is possible to conceive, how growth through evolution of individual to universal consciousness occurred. How and why myths, patterns, groups, ideologies, religions, nations and races, appear and disappear. Dreaming collectively is how it happens. We are then, all dreamers inside the big dream.

I second that... AMEN Unless we are actually all dreams inside the big dreamer!?


-------------
Among that which is most precious... Thoughts unspoken!

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by Hegira
My music isn't really any different than anything you might hear on the radio, though it's simply unique because of my personal collective influences. Musical expression picks up where the limitations of spoken language become insufficient and feable. IMO, music is a truer form of universal communication. Try to imagine your life without the existence of music or any sense of rhythm. I'd say that it's extremely relative!

What I'm doing is bringing my understanding of how my mind and body operates, and tweaking my sound mixes so that those that listen to it not only hear it, but experience it. I'm using all the resources readily available to me in order to better express myself and how I feel, to the world or whoever. Such as surround sound, background alpha/theta wave transmissions, suggestive anticipations for fluidly flowing transitions and tempo changes, synchronized and harmonized high/low EQ enhancement, pitch benders, and basically anything and everything I come across.

In a nutshell, most of these tools are used for mastering audio, and the normal musician would rather have someone else deal with the tediousness of tinkering with wave files for hours on end. Though, I haven't the finances to afford help in that area, so I'm learning and doing it myself. Besides it puts my sleepless hours to a productive challenge, as well as bringing me to that special meditative realm between the "Here and There", and it helps me hold together though I don't often achieve productive dream states.

I have read that the amount of chess moves is equal to the number of melodies that could exist. That a pretty big number, caluclated by phoenixtooth, to be plank length in size. To give you an idea of that number, the distance from the Earth to the end of the universe is equal to the atom to the plank lenght.

Our 24 hr cycle is known as the Circadian Rhythm.

http://www.rockefeller.edu/pubinfo/light.nr.html
I second that... AMEN Unless we are actually all dreams inside the big dreamer!?

-------------
Among that which is most precious... Thoughts unspoken!

Do you know of the biorythm cycles?
http://www.mainstrike.com/mstservices/handy/BioRythm/

 

[Hegira]

I'm familiar with the Biorythm cycles, though I can't put absolute faith in them... To me all cycles can and occasionally become broken for many reasons, and it is difficult to believe that I hold true to 23, 28, and 33 day cycles... Most of the time it depends on how well I tend to my own personal needs. When I lack or desire something, I tend to feel down until it is achieved. Once I have it, then I am happy for a time, until I begin to take it for granted. Then I tend to neglect that "thing", until I realize that I haven't had it for a while. Then I miss it and begin to feel down on myself once again. Naturally, these evident CYCLES seem to relate directly to physical, emotional, and intellectual states. However, I feel as though I've learned enough about myself and my personal needs, that I understand and pick up on preceding signs and often enough I develope my routines accordingly to accommodate my personal spiritual maintenance. Quite relative to house chores, among many other aspects and responsibilities in life. There isn't too much that I can think of that musn't eventually be tended to without chaotic results within a seemingly controlled environment.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by Hegira
I'm familiar with the Biorythm cycles, though I can't put absolute faith in them...

The Biorythm cycles, cause and effect in us, internal biological changes by the movements of the sun, Earth and moon. By affecting our physical,intellectual and emotinal state. This then again affects what our Id dreams and our ego evolves to.

 

[Hegira]

I'm not argueing with you... only myself and my own contemplation of the matter. There's no possible way for me to keep track of everything that could, may, or does affect me and my life, but hey... I try. I may fail miserably at gaining control, yet if I achieve it then I just may end myself and finally find true peace within nothingness. Either way, I walk a path of broken cycles; both in and out of the dream realms.

I choose not to go into this further inside this particular thread...

 

[pelastration]

Originally posted by Hegira
Either way, I walk a path of broken cycles
...
both in and out of the dream realms.

I think Hegira that applies to almost all of us.
In the Buddhist taught it's a combination of (1) the laws of Pratitya Samutpada (the ‘principle of conditioned co-production’) or the Karmatic Wheel, and (2) the Emptiness (Sunyata) (http://www.purifymind.com/SunyataEmp.htm).

 

[Hegira]

Thanks for the reassurance, and the link...

 

[Hegira]

Hey Rader, You made this statement earlier:

"Try describing your last dream and then look on your monitor screen and start describing all the detail on it. Quite a difference you see. There is a subjective and objective reality."


This is true, though observe something (anything) for the first time, then wait until the next day and try to recall the details of it. Within dreams we pay attention to whatever details we choose to, just as we do in our conscious states. I can remember practically every song I've heard, movie I've seen, book I've read... among other things; yet I can never recall every note, lyric, line, face, or every detail. I only remember emotions and relations remaining from the developed nueral connections that I processed as relevant (at the time). As soon as I begin experiencing new things, I begin to fade previous processes to the background and they will continue to fade unless I can find ways to apply and re-apply what is was that I learned.

Granted there are some people with photographic memories, though I'd still find it hard to believe that they remember every detail of their lives. I once heard when I was young that if you wish to never forget something then you need to be exposed to it at least 60 times... That is you read it, say it, see it, hear it, do it, etc, etc... It has seemed to work for me in the past, though I try to remember things that I once memorized and its as though they were barely there in the first place. All because I stopped the repitition and took in new data. This is my only explanation for why its so difficult to remember our dreams once we open our eyes, yet each night when I lay down and close my eyes I am better able to recall and review the dreams of the previous night.

I guess that's all I wanted to say... I couldn't really rest, as I reviewed this discussion within my head...(practically verbatim I might add, but give me a few years and I might hardly remember a word)

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by Hegira
Hey Rader, You made this statement earlier:

"Try describing your last dream and then look on your monitor screen and start describing all the detail on it. Quite a difference you see. There is a subjective and objective reality."


This is true, though observe something (anything) for the first time, then wait until the next day and try to recall the details of it. Within dreams we pay attention to whatever details we choose to, just as we do in our conscious states. I can remember practically every song I've heard, movie I've seen, book I've read... among other things; yet I can never recall every note, lyric, line, face, or every detail. I only remember emotions and relations remaining from the developed nueral connections that I processed as relevant (at the time). As soon as I begin experiencing new things, I begin to fade previous processes to the background and they will continue to fade unless I can find ways to apply and re-apply what is was that I learned.

Our dreams are databases and we are constantly reorganizing data while dreaming. I once dreamt this and was aware while dreaming in both states, conscious and dreaming, my id talked to its ego and exchanged questions to make this confirmation. Have you ever done this? i would like to know if it is unique to me, what a silly quesion nothing is unique to me.

Granted there are some people with photographic memories, though I'd still find it hard to believe that they remember every detail of their lives. I once heard when I was young that if you wish to never forget something then you need to be exposed to it at least 60 times... That is you read it, say it, see it, hear it, do it, etc, etc... It has seemed to work for me in the past, though I try to remember things that I once memorized and its as though they were barely there in the first place. All because I stopped the repitition and took in new data. This is my only explanation for why its so difficult to remember our dreams once we open our eyes, yet each night when I lay down and close my eyes I am better able to recall and review the dreams of the previous night.

We forget our dreams because of a chemical released into the brain upon awaking from the dream state.

I guess that's all I wanted to say... I couldn't really rest, as I reviewed this discussion within my head...(practically verbatim I might add, but give me a few years and I might hardly remember a word)

The human mind is like a computer connected to a giant database.

On quote" David R. Hawkins" It is the vanity of ego that claims thought of “Mine” Genius, on the other hand, commonly attributes the source of creative leaps of awareness to that basis of all consciousness which has traditionally been called Divinity.

 

[Hegira]

I mentioned it at around the middle of the second page of this thread. I rarely talk about things that I find out through those kind of personal scenarios where I have my most awesome questions answered by my ID. Mainly because it always seems for me and me alone... If I went around quoting my dreams to everyone else, then I'd more than likely be locked up faster than a raving madman. I've figured out that many of the answers that I find out through personal revelation and dreaming is only for me, and not everyone else is meant to understand, but they must find out for themselves.



Are you referring to the site that you gave me earlier that talked about RNA, that has to do with the "Tim" and "Per" demands of the brain?


On another note... Genius means divine.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by Hegira
I mentioned it at around the middle of the second page of this thread. I rarely talk about things that I find out through those kind of personal scenarios where I have my most awesome questions answered by my ID. Mainly because it always seems for me and me alone... If I went around quoting my dreams to everyone else, then I'd more than likely be locked up faster than a raving madman. I've figured out that many of the answers that I find out through personal revelation and dreaming is only for me, and not everyone else is meant to understand, but they must find out for themselves.

Yes i agree with you but remember everything that you say do and reveal to another affects yours and there advancement or not to a new level of awarenss.

Are you referring to the site that you gave me earlier that talked about RNA, that has to do with the "Tim" and "Per" demands of the brain?

The quote is from the book Power verses Force.

On another note... Genius means divine.

Human history is the record of mans struggle to comprehend "truths" which to those of genius appear obvious. Genius is by definition a style of consciousness characterized by the ability to access high energy attractor patterns. It is not a personality trait. It is NOT something that a person “has” nor even something that someone “is”. Those in whom we recognize genius commonly disclaim it. A universal characteristic of genius is humility. The genius has always attributed its insights to some higher influence.

 

[Hegira]

Originally posted by Rader
Human history is the record of mans struggle to comprehend "truths" which to those of genius appear obvious. Genius is by definition a style of consciousness characterized by the ability to access high energy attractor patterns. It is not a personality trait. It is NOT something that a person “has” nor even something that someone “is”. Those in whom we recognize genius commonly disclaim it. A universal characteristic of genius is humility. The genius has always attributed its insights to some higher influence.

I can only say that I totally agree... and well, I Love You like a brother! You've affirmed much of what I (we) think and have known... I have just found it hard to relate these same things to others.

I must ask you to tell me a bit more on what you mean by "high energy attractor patterns"... I can understand it from context, though I want to confirm what it seems to me.

I often read my own words, and cringe because of fear of misinterpretation of my true intentions... I say "My", "Mine", "I" a lot more than I probably should if I wish to convey my view points well. I suppose some of the major trouble I've had with relating experiences is that I've found difficulty in vocalizing how I seem to see things. For the most part, I've tried and tried to communicate and relate to anyone about anything, and through the many pains of suspected and obviuos failure to do so time and again... I give up and continue to feel stuck in my own world, especially when I KNOW I'm not alone.

I'll try to say this broadly... Must it always be the dreamers, the artists, the shamans, the "labeled genius" that drag the rest of society into the future (often while they are kicking and screaming)!? Or could there ever be a worldwide awakening in which humans can take a more atoned control of there thoughts, dreams, and apparent lives!? (If not, then I wouldn't mind us moving to our own planet!) Or should I just start another thread?...lol...

No matter what I've done, seen, learned, understood... In dreams and out... I still feel quite hopeless and helpless in things that I know must be done!

Would any of you think that our DREAMS could mean everything, yet nothing at all?? Questions to remain unanswered or Answers that may never be properly questioned?



--------------------------
I try to think of everything, though I never KNOW anything!


HEGIRA

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by Hegira
I can only say that I totally agree... and well, I Love You like a brother! You've affirmed much of what I (we) think and have known... I have just found it hard to relate these same things to others.

What we know is only learning what we know already. The knowledge is there we just have to be aware of it. What we have learned about anything is just accumaltive, from what was known before.

I must ask you to tell me a bit more on what you mean by "high energy attractor patterns"... I can understand it from context, though I want to confirm what it seems to me.

High energy attractor fields corresponding to levels of consciuousness that provide new paradigms for reconstextualing the human experience though all time. This simple means exposure to and inlfluence of consciousness based on neutrality, willingness, acceptance, reason, love, joy, peace, enlightenment to couterbalance courage, pride, anger, desire, fear, grief, apathy, guilt, shame.

I often read my own words, and cringe because of fear of misinterpretation of my true intentions... I say "My", "Mine", "I" a lot more than I probably should if I wish to convey my view points well. I suppose some of the major trouble I've had with relating experiences is that I've found difficulty in vocalizing how I seem to see things. For the most part, I've tried and tried to communicate and relate to anyone about anything, and through the many pains of suspected and obviuos failure to do so time and again... I give up and continue to feel stuck in my own world, especially when I KNOW I'm not alone.

Dreaming is a focal point to go one step behond that. But first the ego in the wake state must change by voluntrary action and then in the dream state, the id reorganizes the learning for the next day of the ego trip. Much can be changed by the influence of oneself on others.

I'll try to say this broadly... Must it always be the dreamers, the artists, the shamans, the "labeled genius" that drag the rest of society into the future (often while they are kicking and screaming)!? Or could there ever be a worldwide awakening in which humans can take a more atoned control of there thoughts, dreams, and apparent lives!? (If not, then I wouldn't mind us moving to our own planet!) Or should I just start another thread?...lol...

You ae what you wish to be and nothing more.

No matter what I've done, seen, learned, understood... In dreams and out... I still feel quite hopeless and helpless in things that I know must be done!

Ever humans motto should be change for the goog, what you can, and change not what you can not.

Would any of you think that our DREAMS could mean everything, yet nothing at all?? Questions to remain unanswered or Answers that may never be properly questioned?

The best i can come up with is we dream in the id to evlolve the ego. Why? to evolve to a higher level of consciousness. Why? Because the beauty of creation is in its diversity to evolve from nothing to the conscious universe. Why? To know and be in unity with the mind of God

--------------------------
I try to think of everything, though I never KNOW anything!

HEGIRA

 

[Hegira]

Originally posted by Rader

Dreaming is a focal point to go one step behond that. But first the ego in the wake state must change by voluntrary action and then in the dream state, the id reorganizes the learning for the next day of the ego trip. Much can be changed by the influence of oneself on others.

If you believe something consciuosly then your subconscious makes it real and true to you. This is like what I've read in "The Power of the Subconscious Mind". Pretty much identical to prayer... if every night or day you "ask" for something, then eventually you will get it one way or another. As long as you believe it, it will undoubtly materialize from your own convincing suggestions. Besides that you will be more conscientious of oppurtunities. The problem is that it is difficult to convince yourself when the goals are extremely outlandish.

The best i can come up with is we dream in the id to evlolve the ego. Why? to evolve to a higher level of consciousness. Why? Because the beauty of creation is in its diversity to evolve from nothing to the conscious universe. Why? To know and be in unity with the mind of God.

Does the dream end when we die, fading away... or would it be more like a quantum leap into a seemingly distant neo-existence on an atomic level!? I don't believe it fades though it might seem at first. Merely an unconceivable (to our present state) transition towards a return to the source through a constant flux of alternating God-states until the final unity that comes before ultimate and absolute peace. A practically Eternal Journey! Time never matters when the dream never has to end!

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by Hegira
If you believe something consciuosly then your subconscious makes it real and true to you. This is like what I've read in "The Power of the Subconscious Mind". Pretty much identical to prayer... if every night or day you "ask" for something, then eventually you will get it one way or another. As long as you believe it, it will undoubtly materialize from your own convincing suggestions. Besides that you will be more conscientious of oppurtunities. The problem is that it is difficult to convince yourself when the goals are extremely outlandish.

The ego feeds the Id to remodel the Ego.

Does the dream end when we die, fading away... or would it be more like a quantum leap into a seemingly distant neo-existence on an atomic level!? I don't believe it fades though it might seem at first. Merely an unconceivable (to our present state) transition towards a return to the source through a constant flux of alternating God-states until the final unity that comes before ultimate and absolute peace. A practically Eternal Journey! Time never matters when the dream never has to end!

Consciousness is life, it can not die. The body can die yes but not consciousness. If the universe is conscious then, consciousness is in everyting. The created would have, what the creator put in it, consciousness. Unity would be total consciousness.

http://users.erols.com/wcri/CONSCIOUSNESS.html

 

[Rader]

brainwaves

There are four brainwave states that range from the high amplitude, low frequency delta to the low amplitude, high frequency beta. These brainwave states range from deep dreamless sleep to high arousal. The same four brainwave states are common to the human species. Men, women and children of all ages experience the same characteristic brainwaves. They are consistent across cultures and country boundaries.

What might there purpose be for being 4?

 

[pelastration]

Originally posted by Rader
There are four brainwave states that range from the high amplitude, low frequency delta to the low amplitude, high frequency beta. These brainwave states range from deep dreamless sleep to high arousal. The same four brainwave states are common to the human species. Men, women and children of all ages experience the same characteristic brainwaves. They are consistent across cultures and country boundaries.

What might there purpose be for being 4?

Why there are 4? Probably because of the structure by which they are conducted. I put now a new webpage related to consciousness and dreams. With images I try to explain what previously I tried here on PF with the analogies with kitchen, livingsroom and Internet, and with that TV-set and remote-control.
The link:
http://mu6.com/consciousness.html

 

[Hegira]

Well, I'm not sure of the signifigance of Four brainwave patterns, as opposed to 3, 5, or 10, etc... But I know that they are all present at any given time, no matter which state is precedent. When you're awake, focused or concentrating you are primarily Beta, but the other Three are still in operation and fluxuation. When you are relaxed after certain accomplishment or not stimulated from your envrionment you are primarily Alpha. When you are resting or you're not in need of more focused brain function for physical activities you are Theta. And Delta is for sleep and deep sleep.

Overall thought processing has its different formats, creativity, and productivity with respect to each brainwave emition. Realization and better awareness of these can give you a more profound understanding of your own system of data processing. You can also use some of the devices that exercise your brainwave states in order to achieve or induce alternation of each state. These are accomplished through Binaural Beat Frequencies, that I mentioned earlier in this discussion.

I've been experimenting for about 6 years with my own music that I record, mix, and master. In some songs I've even combined and mixed alternating frequencies simultaneously, while in other longer compositions I'll make either a circular or triangular transition between the beta, alpha, and theta. Dealing with Delta has been difficult in some ways, since its hard to catalog results on myself...lol... Most people wouldn't even know what is "underneath" practically every song I've mixed unless I specifically bring it to someone's attention... And then some still wouldn't even be able to tell or notice. These frequencies are so subtle that your brain can recognize their presence, but they tend to elude awareness.

Why is there Four!? Not sure... Four is the root of much within realms of relation and transition... From seasons to symmetria... Square to tesseract... Heaven to Hell... Good to Evil...

As far as I can tell, whenever there exists Two extremes there is two neutrals between. Often the two between may seem like one extention(equivilent to the sum of extremes), since the middle line is rarely obvious or evident. Ex: Hot and Cold - Warm; Good and Evil - Neutral; Black and White - Gray


Does any of that make sense?





------------------
Yeah, I've died before, and I'm still here... Now What!?

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by pelastration
Why there are 4? Probably because of the structure by which they are conducted. I put now a new webpage related to consciousness and dreams. With images I try to explain what previously I tried here on PF with the analogies with kitchen, livingsroom and Internet, and with that TV-set and remote-control.
The link:
http://mu6.com/consciousness.html

pelastration vey good job done, so the layman can understand this complicated subject. You have included all levels of awarenss of consciusness, including the dream state. Then the answer to my question could be something like. There are 4 portholes of awarness inside consciousness, that link the human level of consciousness. Each porthole alows intrance, interaction, recording and manipulation of individual consciousness with the whole of consciousness. The type of wave, the door, the frequency of the waves, interactions points, the id records it, and the ego is manipulated. Can you add, correct or destroy what i have said?

 

[pelastration]

Originally posted by Rader
pelastration vey good job done, so the layman can understand this complicated subject. You have included all levels of awarenss of consciusness, including the dream state. Then the answer to my question could be something like. There are 4 portholes of awarness inside consciousness, that link the human level of consciousness. Each porthole alows intrance, interaction, recording and manipulation of individual consciousness with the whole of consciousness. The type of wave, the door, the frequency of the waves, interactions points, the id records it, and the ego is manipulated. Can you add, correct or destroy what i have said?

Thanks ;-).
It think Richard that is a good description.

I don't see it in relation to plasma (somewhere your suggestion in another thread). In my approach all building up to more complex holons happens on the brane.

About id and Ego can you detail more?
I am not really impressed by Wolf: (quote) I have shown that the phenomenon of "wave function collapse" or the change in the probability of a process associated with the action of a measurement affects neural operation and leads to an uncertainty in timing of conscious events. . I conclude that the action of conscious awareness occurs as a result of this collapse mechanism.(end quote).

I introduced the "Attention Shift" which makes "uncertainty" obsolete. You can see that Shift on a new webpage with three animated gif's. http://www.mu6.com/consciousness2.html . It's really dynamic. Think you will like it.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by Hegira
Well, I'm not sure of the signifigance of Four brainwave patterns.

As far as I can tell, whenever there exists Two extremes there is two neutrals between. Often the two between may seem like one extention(equivilent to the sum of extremes), since the middle line is rarely obvious or evident. Ex: Hot and Cold - Warm; Good and Evil - Neutral; Black and White - Gray

Does any of that make sense?

------------------
Yeah, I've died before, and I'm still here... Now What!?

I have not heard this analogy before. Can you explain further?

 

[Rader]

brain wave functions

Originally posted by pelastration
Thanks ;-).
It think Richard that is a good description.

I don't see it in relation to plasma (somewhere your suggestion in another thread). In my approach all building up to more complex holons happens on the brane.

About id and Ego can you detail more?
I am not really impressed by Wolf: (quote) I have shown that the phenomenon of "wave function collapse" or the change in the probability of a process associated with the action of a measurement affects neural operation and leads to an uncertainty in timing of conscious events. . I conclude that the action of conscious awareness occurs as a result of this collapse mechanism.(end quote).

I introduced the "Attention Shift" which makes "uncertainty" obsolete. You can see that Shift on a new webpage with three animated gif's. http://www.mu6.com/consciousness2.html . It's really dynamic. Think you will like it.

There are four categories of brainwaves, ranging from the most activity to the least activity. When the brain is aroused and actively engaged in mental activities, it generates beta waves. These beta waves are of relatively low amplitude, and are the fastest of the four different brainwaves. The frequency of beta waves ranges from 15 to 40 cycles a second. Beta waves are characteristics of a strongly engaged mind. A person in active conversation would be in beta. A debater would be in high beta. A person making a speech, or a teacher, or a talk show host would all be in beta when they are engaged in their work.

The Brainwaves
The next brainwave category in order of frequency is alpha. Where beta represented arousal, alpha represents non-arousal. Alpha brainwaves are slower, and higher in amplitude. Their frequency ranges from 9 to 14 cycles per second. A person who has completed a task and sits down to rest is often in an alpha state. A person who takes time out to reflect or meditate is usually in an alpha state. A person who takes a break from a conference and walks in the garden is often in an alpha state.

The next state, theta brainwaves, are typically of even greater amplitude and slower frequency. This frequency range is normally between 5 and 8 cycles a second. A person who has taken time off from a task and begins to daydream is often in a theta brainwave state. A person who is driving on a freeway, and discovers that they can't recall the last five miles, is often in a theta state--induced by the process of freeway driving. The repetitious nature of that form of driving compared to a country road would differentiate a theta state and a beta state in order to perform the driving task safely.

Individuals who do a lot of freeway driving often get good ideas during those periods when they are in theta. Individuals who run outdoors often are in the state of mental relaxation that is slower than alpha and when in theta, they are prone to a flow of ideas. This can also occur in the shower or tub or even while shaving or brushing your hair. It is a state where tasks become so automatic that you can mentally disengage from them. The ideation that can take place during the theta state is often free flow and occurs without censorship or guilt. It is typically a very positive mental state.

The final brainwave state is delta. Here the brainwaves are of the greatest amplitude and slowest frequency. They typically center around a range of 1.5 to 4 cycles per second. They never go down to zero because that would mean that you were brain dead. But, deep dreamless sleep would take you down to the lowest frequency. Typically, 2 to 3 cycles a second.

When we go to bed and read for a few minutes before attempting sleep, we are likely to be in low beta. When we put the book down, turn off the lights and close our eyes, our brainwaves will descend from beta, to alpha, to theta and finally, when we fall asleep, to delta.

It is a well known fact that humans dream in 90 minute cycles. When the delta brainwave frequencies increase into the frequency of theta brainwaves, active dreaming takes place and often becomes more experiential to the person. Typically, when this occurs there is rapid eye movement, which is characteristic of active dreaming. This is called REM, and is a well known phenomenon.

When an individual awakes from a deep sleep in preparation for getting up, their brainwave frequencies will increase through the different specific stages of brainwave activity. That is, they will increase from delta to theta and then to alpha and finally, when the alarm goes off, into beta. If that individual hits the snooze alarm button they will drop in frequency to a non-aroused state, or even into theta, or sometimes fall back to sleep in delta. During this awakening cycle it is possible for individuals to stay in the theta state for an extended period of say, five to 15 minutes--which would allow them to have a free flow of ideas about yesterday's events or to contemplate the activities of the forthcoming day. This time can be an extremely productive and can be a period of very meaningful and creative mental activity.

Research has shown that although one brainwave state may predominate at any given time, depending on the activity level of the individual, the remaining three brain states are present in the mix of brainwaves at all times. In other words, while somebody is an aroused state and exhibiting a beta brainwave pattern, there also exists in that person's brain a component of alpha, theta and delta, even though these may be present only at the trace level.

This is a pretty good summary of the how of the 4 types of brain waves. No one type of brain wave works alone, they are always in interaction. Your animated graph shows that clearly.

About id and Ego can you detail more? About id and Ego can you detail more?
I am not really impressed by Wolf: (quote) I have shown that the phenomenon of "wave function collapse" or the change in the probability of a process associated with the action of a measurement affects neural operation and leads to an uncertainty in timing of conscious events. . I conclude that the action of conscious awareness occurs as a result of this collapse mechanism.

This same collapse mechanism, v vector, exists in all of nature. Might it be that in other entities, the way or level in which awareness is manifested in due to complexity of the entity, when the v vector collapses? What might be the physical construct,attached to, in other entities? Would the uncertainty in timing of conscious events, be reduced in units of time, due to less complexity?
http://users.erols.com/wcri/CONSCIOUSNESS.html

 

[Hegira]

Rader,

When you initiated this discussion on the four brainwave patterns, I commenced to refresh my memory on much of what I've read before. Ironically, the first site I came to (by a google search for - Four Brainwave States) was:

http://brain.web-us.com/brainwavesfunction.htm

Were you the author of that site?

Aside from that... Pelastration, your site is outstanding and awesomely informative on your studies and ideas! I'll be spending some time there whenever I have the spare moments to do so. Thank You!


Hegira

 

[Rader]

attractor patterns

Originally posted by Hegira
Rader,

When you initiated this discussion on the four brainwave patterns, I commenced to refresh my memory on much of what I've read before. Ironically, the first site I came to (by a google search for - Four Brainwave States) was:

http://brain.web-us.com/brainwavesfunction.htm

Were you the author of that site?

Aside from that... Pelastration, your site is outstanding and awesomely informative on your studies and ideas! I'll be spending some time there whenever I have the spare moments to do so. Thank You!
Hegira

No i am not the author, just have a deep interest in the subject and consider, that info was a good place to start a new direction of thought. This demonstrates, that there is evidence of such things in the physical world. There are no coincidences, just mixing of attractor patterns. While we posted back an forth for quite a while, i had thouhgt about asking pelastration alittle, wondering why he did not include anything on the dream state. But he has.