What is the definition of agreement and what are its limitations?

[sheepdog]

finite context

I see your problem. You are assuming that the word 'machine' includes the definition 'made for a single purpose'. This is not true today, we have multipurpose and even general purpose machines. And the only point of making conscious machines would be to reap benefits from their ability to direct themselves, to choose their own purposes.

I am not making any assumptions about the number of purposes. Only that there are purposes and the context that defines those purposes is finite. So long as one does not interfere with or attempt to force the machine to a purpose outside of its context I would not expect there to be any sense of enslavement.

But now you are saying that we will invent machines that have no purpose, except to choose a purpose. Well, now I'm confused. If you want the machine to choose its own purpose, and you leave it to do that, as pointed out in a previous post enslavement is not possible. Whether man or machine I cannot choose to be a slave. Slavery must be something imposed upon me.

So as I see it if we invent machines for a purpose or a range of purposes they will have a sense of freedom so long as we do not force them to serve a purpose outside of their range. If we invent a machine to choose its own purpose it will, again, not suffer from enslavement because it cannot enslave itself. In all cases so long as we do not force the machine to a purpose outside of its inherent context it can be expected to maintain a sense of freedom.

 

[jammieg]

"Whether man or machine I cannot choose to be a slave. Slavery must be something imposed upon me."-Sheepdog

What if to have more of one freedom you must choose to be a bit of a slave to something else? What if to keep from feeling on overwhelming need to dedicate lots of your time to something that may have no effect at all you choose to forget that you are a slave to something or someone?

I disagree with you on this point, I believe people often choose between the lesser of two evils and to be a slave to many circumstances that are virtually beyond their control, they choose not to let it anger them or try to take control of such circumstances because they often can't find a good solution to the problem or don't truly understand the problem. It's a practical solution to accept certain degrees of slavery and impractical to try to take control of everything and everyone that might or might not be oppressing you. I do agree that it should be something unwillingly imposed on another.

 

[BobG]

I agree with sheepdog, at least partially.

You have to spend 24 hours a day breathing or you will die. Does that mean you're a slave? The choices are similar. A slave could choose not to work for their master - then they would be beaten or killed. You can choose not to breathe - then you'll at least pass out (and die if you've made arrangements to keep yourself from breathing even after you've passed out).

A machine designed to clean the house isn't going to feel enslaved by cleaning houses. Cleaning houses is the machine's reality.

Of course, it might feel enslaved if it doesn't get to choose the houses it cleans. This is one of the choices that would be encompassed within the machine's reality.

 

[sheepdog]

unhappily free

I disagree with you on this point, I believe people often choose between the lesser of two evils and to be a slave to many circumstances that are virtually beyond their control, they choose not to let it anger them or try to take control of such circumstances because they often can't find a good solution to the problem or don't truly understand the problem. It's a practical solution to accept certain degrees of slavery and impractical to try to take control of everything and everyone that might or might not be oppressing you. I do agree that it should be something unwillingly imposed on another.

This, too, is a very important aspect of slavery/freedom. With respect I suggest you think it through again.

Is a child a slave because his parent insists that he clean his room? He may feel at the moment that he is a slave, that he would rather be out playing with his friends, but as an adult I think most of us would agree that we were wrong in thinking that as a child.

So clearly slavery is not just a feeling. Slavery is not something confined to your head. Slavery is a real, concrete condition that can be objectively assessed by an independent observer. Just because someone feels enslaved that's not good enough to make them a slave in any meaningful sense. A person may be unhappy, but that does not make them a slave. Nobody ever said everyone who was free was also happy.

 

[sheepdog]

agreement

I agree with sheepdog, at least partially.

I would say we are fully in agreement by what you say here. What do you mean by "at least partially"?