What is the Differentiation Challenge?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a mathematical problem involving differentiation, specifically finding the derivative $$\frac{\mathrm{d}y}{\mathrm{d}x}$$ given the equation $$\frac{x - y}{x + y} = \frac{x + y}{y}$$ under certain restrictions on the variables. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and problem-solving approaches.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a mathematical challenge involving differentiation and invites others to find $$\frac{\mathrm{d}y}{\mathrm{d}x}$$ in various forms.
  • Several participants question the characterization of the problem as a "challenge," suggesting it may not be sufficiently difficult.
  • Another participant emphasizes the value of problems at any level of difficulty and encourages those who find it easy to allow others to engage with it.
  • Multiple participants express differing views on the nature of the problem, with some finding it trivial and others potentially engaging with it seriously.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on whether the problem constitutes a true "challenge," with some participants questioning its difficulty while others defend its value regardless of complexity.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not yet provided solutions or explored the mathematical implications of the problem in depth, leaving the discussion open-ended.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in mathematical problem-solving, particularly in differentiation and related concepts, may find this discussion engaging.

Theia
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Let's have a snack challenge for a while. ^^

Let $$x$$ and $$y$$ be real numbers (with restrictions $$y \ne 0, \ y \ne -x$$) and $$\frac{x - y}{x + y} = \frac{x + y}{y}$$.

Find $$\frac{\mathrm{d}y}{\mathrm{d}x}$$ in whatever form you like most. I mean, for example forms $$\frac{\mathrm{d}y}{\mathrm{d}x} = f(x, y)$$ or $$\frac{\mathrm{d}y}{\mathrm{d}x} = g(x)$$ are equally good at this time.

Please remember to use spoiler tags when you run to post the answer! :)
 
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How is this a "challenge"?

Once you have multiplied on both sides by y(x+ y), it is a straight forward Calculus I "implicit differentiation".
 
Last edited by a moderator:
HallsofIvy said:
How is this a "challenge"?

Once you have multiplied on both sides by y(x+ y), it is a straight forward Calculus I "implicit differentiation".

I said this is 'a snack', not 'an afwully complicated thing you need to think about seven years'...
Anyway, then you can show me your answer, right? ^^
 
Theia said:
I said this is 'a snack', not 'an afwully complicated thing you need to think about seven years'...
Anyway, then you can show me your answer, right? ^^

We appreciate challenge problems of virtually any level of difficulty. My advice to everyone is that if you find a posted problem "too easy" to solve, then leave it for those who will be challenged by it and enjoy posting a solution. :D
 
My solution:
$\d y x = \text{Undefined}$

Yummy snack! ;)
 
I like Serena said:
My solution:
$\d y x = \text{Undefined}$

Yummy snack! ;)

That's right! Can you give a short explanation too, please? :D
 
Theia said:
That's right! Can you give a short explanation too, please? :D

Sure! (Bandit)

$x$ and $y$ are given to be real numbers with $y\ne 0$ and $y\ne x$.

We have:
$$\frac{x-y}{x+y}=\frac {x+y}{y} \quad\Rightarrow\quad
(x-y)y=(x+y)^2 \quad\Rightarrow\quad
2y^2+xy+x^2=0 \quad\Rightarrow\quad
y = \frac 14 (-x\pm \sqrt{x^2 - 8x^2}) =\frac 14 x(-1\pm i\sqrt 7)
$$
Since $y\ne 0$, there are no real numbers $x,y$ that satisfy the equation.

Therefore $\d y x$ is not defined anywhere. (Cake)
 
Well done! Thank you! ^^

And now, I'd think I try to be more careful when it comes to 'implicit differentiation'... :D
 

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