What Is the Distribution of the First Failure Time for Two Independent Machines?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the distribution of the first failure time for two independent machines, M1 and M2, which operate in parallel. Participants explore the properties of geometric distributions and the probabilities associated with the failure of each machine over repeated runs.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that X1 and X2, representing the number of runs until the first failure of M1 and M2 respectively, have geometric distributions with parameters p1 and p2.
  • One participant suggests considering the probability distribution P(X1 OR X2) to approach the problem.
  • Another participant models the machines as biased coins, calculating the probabilities of different outcomes based on the failure rates of the machines.
  • This participant derives the combined probability of failure for either machine, concluding that it equals p1 + p2 - p1p2, as stated in the original question.
  • A later reply confirms the logic of the previous participant, emphasizing the independence of events and the validity of the algebra used in the calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the approach to modeling the problem and the calculations involved, but there is no explicit consensus on the overall solution or the final interpretation of the results.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions regarding the independence of events and the disjoint nature of outcomes are critical to the reasoning presented, but these assumptions are not universally confirmed within the discussion.

topgun08
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Question:
Two faulty machines, M1 and M2, are repeatedly run synchronously in parallel (i.e., both machines execute
one run, then both execute a second run, and so on). On each run, M1 fails with probability p1 and M2 with
probability p2, all failure events being independent. Let the random variables X1, X2 denote the number of
runs until the first failure of M1, M2 respectively; thus X1, X2 have geometric distributions with parameters
p1, p2 respectively.
Let X denote the number of runs until the first failure of either machine. Show that X also has a geometric
distribution, with parameter p1 + p2 − p1p2

Attempt at an answer:
X1 has a geometric distribution of (1-p1)^i-1 * p1
X2 has a geometric distribution of (1-p2)^i-1 * p2

I'm confused an don't know how to proceed. Any help is appreciated.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
topgun08 said:
Question:
Two faulty machines, M1 and M2, are repeatedly run synchronously in parallel (i.e., both machines execute
one run, then both execute a second run, and so on). On each run, M1 fails with probability p1 and M2 with
probability p2, all failure events being independent. Let the random variables X1, X2 denote the number of
runs until the first failure of M1, M2 respectively; thus X1, X2 have geometric distributions with parameters
p1, p2 respectively.
Let X denote the number of runs until the first failure of either machine. Show that X also has a geometric
distribution, with parameter p1 + p2 − p1p2

Attempt at an answer:
X1 has a geometric distribution of (1-p1)^i-1 * p1
X2 has a geometric distribution of (1-p2)^i-1 * p2

I'm confused an don't know how to proceed. Any help is appreciated.

Hey topgun08.

I'll start with one hint: in terms of failures, consider the probability distribution P(X1 OR X2)
 
After much deliberation here's what I arrived at.

Consider both machines as biased coins such that Tails means the machine fails and Heads means it runs. Thus for Machine1 and Machine 2,
Pr[T1] = p1 and Pr[H1] = 1-p1
Pr[T2] = p2 and Pr

= 1-p2

So the running of both machines can be considered as flipping both these biased coins together, giving us the below table:

Pr[H1H2] = (1-p1)(1-p2)
Pr[H1T2] = (1-p1)(p2) = p2-p1p2
Pr[T1H2] = (p1)(1-p2) = p1-p1p2
Pr[T1T2] = (p1)(p2) = p1p2

And the questions asks for when either machine fails, so adding the probabilities that contain a tails together:
Pr[H1T2] + Pr[T1H2] + Pr[T1T2] = p2-p1p2 + p1-p1p2 + p1p2 = p2 + p1 - p1p2

Which is equal to what the question gave us. Please let me know if my logic is sound or if there's a better way to solve this, and thank you for your help!

 
topgun08 said:
After much deliberation here's what I arrived at.

Consider both machines as biased coins such that Tails means the machine fails and Heads means it runs. Thus for Machine1 and Machine 2,
Pr[T1] = p1 and Pr[H1] = 1-p1
Pr[T2] = p2 and Pr

= 1-p2

So the running of both machines can be considered as flipping both these biased coins together, giving us the below table:

Pr[H1H2] = (1-p1)(1-p2)
Pr[H1T2] = (1-p1)(p2) = p2-p1p2
Pr[T1H2] = (p1)(1-p2) = p1-p1p2
Pr[T1T2] = (p1)(p2) = p1p2

And the questions asks for when either machine fails, so adding the probabilities that contain a tails together:
Pr[H1T2] + Pr[T1H2] + Pr[T1T2] = p2-p1p2 + p1-p1p2 + p1p2 = p2 + p1 - p1p2

Which is equal to what the question gave us. Please let me know if my logic is sound or if there's a better way to solve this, and thank you for your help!



That looks pretty good, and the logic looks very sound.

Since events are independent you can apply product rule and since the events are disjoint you can simply add them together so under these two assumptions the algebra should work.

If the events were not independent or the events were not disjoint this would not work, but since this is not the case it should be ok.

 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 178 ·
6
Replies
178
Views
10K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
3K