What is the edge of the universe and what lies beyond?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the edge of the universe and what lies beyond it, exploring theoretical models of the universe's shape, dimensionality, and the implications of galaxies existing beyond the observable universe. The scope includes cosmological theories and speculative reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if the universe is closed, traveling in one direction could lead back to the starting point, while others suggest it could be open or flat, implying an infinite universe.
  • There is a discussion about whether galaxies beyond a certain point (e.g., 46 billion light years) exist and if they conform to Hubble's law, with some suggesting that these galaxies may be moving away too quickly for their light to reach us.
  • One participant mentions that the big bang occurred everywhere in the universe simultaneously, which is a point of contention regarding the origin of galaxies beyond the observable universe.
  • Another participant questions the modification of a quote regarding the big bang, indicating a focus on the accuracy of statements made in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the shape and nature of the universe, with no consensus on whether it is closed, open, or flat. The existence of galaxies beyond the observable universe remains a topic of speculation without agreement.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on current cosmological models and the unresolved nature of the universe's shape and dimensionality. The discussion reflects various interpretations and assumptions that are not universally accepted.

Stephanus
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Dear PF Forum,
I have a simple and cliche question.
What is the edge of the universe?

1. We live on the surface of the earth. It's 2 dimensions against Earth 3 dimensions.
If we start from Equador which lies on the equator to the east, we'll reach Columbia then Brazil then Atlantic ocean, continue on then Congo, then Kenya, then Indian Ocean, across Maldives then, my country Indonesia (the only Asian nation in equator :smile:) then go on to the east, Papua, then Pacific ocean, then some small islands in Pacific, continue on then we arrive back to Equador.
Does the universe look like that? 3 dimensions against 4 dimensions. So if we travel "east" from earth, we'll go back to Earth again?

2. Consider this simple drawing
B <-------- 46 gly ------------ Earth ---------------- 46gly -------------> A
If we travel east from Earth and on and on, and we reach Galaxy A, 46 giga light year "east" from eart.
What would that be?
Earth ----------------- 46 gly ------------------> A ------------------->?
Can we reach back to B?
Earth ----------------- 46 gly ------------------> A ------------------ n distance ----> B

3. Or this model
I choose 46 gly because it's the time of big bag adjusted by Hubble law.
B <-------- 46 gly ------------ Earth ---------------- 46gly -------------> A
Earth ---------------- 46gly -------------> A --------------- 46 gly -------------> C
A --------------- 46 gly -------------> C ---------------- 46gly -------------> D
C ---------------- 46gly -------------> D ---------------- 46gly -------------> E
And no end of it?

If we come up 46 gly by the age of the universe 13.8 billions light year adjusted by Hubble law,
4. Are there any galaxies beyond A to the "east"?
5. Supposed there are galaxies beyond A that we can't see. Are the distance of those galaxies still conform with Hubble law, but they are already too fast that we can't see their light?
6. If there are other galaxies beyond A to the "east", did they come from "our" big bang?

Thanks for any answer to fullfill my curiousity.
 
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Stephanus said:
Does the universe look like that? 3 dimensions against 4 dimensions. So if we travel "east" from earth, we'll go back to Earth again?
There is no known answer to this question. As far as we know, there is no higher dimensional space.

Stephanus said:
B <-------- 46 gly ------------ Earth ---------------- 46gly -------------> A

You are here talking about the observable universe. There is no indication that the Universe should do anything but continue on outside of that. Of course, there is no way of knowing that.

Stephanus said:
but they are already too fast that we can't see their light?
It is not about the galaxies moving, it is about space expanding.

Stephanus said:
If there are other galaxies beyond A to the "east", did they come from "our" big bang?
According to the standard model of cosmology at the present time, the big bang happened everywhere in the universe at once.
 
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Stephanus said:
What is the edge of the universe?

There is no known edge to the universe.

Stephanus said:
Does the universe look like that? 3 dimensions against 4 dimensions. So if we travel "east" from earth, we'll go back to Earth again?

We don't know. It is certainly possible that the shape of the universe leads to a 'closed' universe, where traveling in one direction eventually causes you to loop back around to your starting point, but it could just as likely be that the universe is either 'open' or 'flat', both of which may mean the universe is infinite in size. Note that even a universe that is closed is not required to be embedded within a 4th spatial dimension. There is a difference between extrensic curvature (measured with respect to a higher dimension) and intrinsic curvature (measured within existing spatial dimensions).

See here for more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_of_the_universe

Stephanus said:
2. Consider this simple drawing
B <-------- 46 gly ------------ Earth ---------------- 46gly -------------> A
If we travel east from Earth and on and on, and we reach Galaxy A, 46 giga light year "east" from eart.
What would that be?

As you said, it would be a galaxy.

Stephanus said:
6. If there are other galaxies beyond A to the "east", did they come from "our" big bang?

Yes they did.
 
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Orodruin said:
According to the standard model of cosmology at the present time, the big bang happened everywhere in the universe at once.
According to the standard model of cosmology at the present time, the big bang happened everywhere in the universe at once.
I don't mean to be picky, but... is that quote modification alright with you?
 
OCR said:
I don't mean to be picky, but... is that quote modification alright with you?
That makes sense, at least for me.:smile:
 

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