What is the mathematical expression for fluid rotation in 3D?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the mathematical expression for fluid rotation in three dimensions, particularly focusing on non-rigid rotations and the implications of fluid viscosity. Participants explore theoretical aspects of fluid dynamics, higher-dimensional rotations, and the nature of motion in non-rigid systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the mathematical treatment of a rotating sphere of fluid in 3D could incorporate a viscosity term, questioning how infinite viscosity would behave like a solid.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of higher-dimensional rotations, speculating on the physicality of a sphere versus an ellipsoid in four dimensions and the forces that might maintain such a structure.
  • Several participants seek clarification on the term "non-rigid rotation," proposing that any motion without translation can be interpreted as a rotation, which leads to discussions about specific examples involving non-interacting massive particles in a galaxy.
  • A participant proposes that a vector field orthogonal to lines from the origin could represent instantaneous rotation at every point, although they admit to lacking expertise in fluid dynamics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of "non-rigid rotation," and there is no consensus on the implications of viscosity or the nature of higher-dimensional rotations. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various assumptions, such as the effects of viscosity and the nature of forces in higher dimensions, but these assumptions are not fully explored or agreed upon.

ImaLooser
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I can figure out how to do a rigid rotation in n dimensions. Next I want to look at non-rigid rotations.

Lets says that we have a rotation sphere of fluid in 3D. How mathematically does that rotate?

It is important how viscous the fluid is. If it is infinite viscous them it would essentially be a solid, right? So it seems that there could be a single expression with a viscosity term.

A fluid sphere with zero viscosity would be a superfluid, I think, and hence excluded. Or perhaps not.
 
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Higher dimensional rotation of

Rotations usually take place in a coordinate system with the center of the sphere at the origin, to avoid unnecessary mess.

Now consider a rotation in four dimensions. Such a rotation has two axis. What if one of the axis does not go through the origin? I think that a sphere would be non-physical and the result would be some sort of ellipsoid instead, but at this point I don't even know what questions to ask. I would guess that a rigid rotation would be impossible, but a fluid rotation would be.

I guess it would depend on the forces that hold the ellipsoid together. I think that gravity alone would not tend to make such a structure, nor would surface tension. It is hard to thnk of what would naturally do this. Maybe a combination of two forces, like gravity and an extremely strong magnetic field (like 10^14 gauss, maybe.) But by this point I'm walking on air like Wile E. Coyote. Anybody have any ideas.
 
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What do you mean by "non-rigid rotation"? Any motion (without translation so the center of the object does not move) can be interpreted as a rotation and stretches and so as a "non-rigid rotation".
 
HallsofIvy said:
What do you mean by "non-rigid rotation"? Any motion (without translation so the center of the object does not move) can be interpreted as a rotation and stretches and so as a "non-rigid rotation".
Quite so. So there are quite a few situations where it would arise. Let's look at a specific simple example. Let's assume that we have CNIMP (completely non-interacting massive particles). Initially they are evenly distributed through the galaxy. They will be attracted by massive bodies and pass through in cometary or elliptical orbits. It seems that there should be some simple matrix for the case of a single star, though I'm too dumb to figure it out. My best guess is that there is some way to combine position and momentum vectors to get a six-dimensional sphere, then have a rigid rotation of that. Or something like that.
 
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I don't know any fluid dynamics but mathematically a vector field that is everywhere orthogonal to the lines from the origin would integrate to a flow that is an instantaneous rotation at every point.
 

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