What is the mathematically correct way to write this summation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the correct mathematical formulation of a summation related to the trapezoidal rule for integration, specifically in the context of calculating work done as an integral of torque over an angle. Participants explore the proper notation and limits for the summation, as well as the relationship between degrees and radians in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to correctly express the summation in relation to the trapezoidal rule and whether it is appropriate to mix degrees and radians.
  • Another participant asserts that the summation index should increment by one, and suggests that the upper limit of the summation should be 359, reflecting the number of intervals created.
  • A different participant proposes a revised formulation of the summation, suggesting that the function notation should reflect the angle in radians.
  • There is a discussion about the clarity of notation, with suggestions to use consistent subscripting for angles in both the integral and summation.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the relationship between torque and the function being used, leading to a revision of the notation to clarify this relationship.
  • Another participant confirms that the latest formulation is acceptable, but points out a minor correction regarding the limits of integration.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need for clarity in notation and the correct limits for the summation, but there are differing opinions on the best way to express the relationship between degrees and radians, as well as the function notation used.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved issues regarding the mixing of degrees and radians in the context of the summation and integral, as well as the notation for the function representing torque.

Kalus
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How can I make this mathematically correct? I hope you see what I'm trying to do?...

If you have a graph where:
W=\displaystyle\int^{\theta_{2\pi}}_{\theta_{0}} \tau d\theta
Then the estimated area with the trapesium rule:
<br /> \displaystyle\int^{\theta_{2\pi}}_{\theta_{0}} \tau d\theta\approx(\theta_{2\pi}-\theta_{0})\frac{f(\theta_{0})+f(\theta_{2\pi})}{2}
Since one cycle is split into 360 uniformly spaced points, or 359 segments, with 1 degree spacing, this gives a step size of h=\frac{2\pi}{360}=\frac{\pi}{180}.
Then the integration is:
W=\displaystyle\int^{\theta_{2\pi}}_{\theta_{0}} \tau d\theta\approx \frac{h}{2}\displaystyle\sum\limits_{i=0}^{2\pi} (f(\theta_i)+f(\theta_{i+h}))

Now, I seem to be mixing degrees and radians... when you use the summation symbol, is it always assumed that the summation goes up in values of one, i.e, if you have summation between k=1 and k=10 that this will go up 1,2,3,4 etc.?
 
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Hi Kalus! :smile:
Kalus said:
... when you use the summation symbol, is it always assumed that the summation goes up in values of one, i.e, if you have summation between k=1 and k=10 that this will go up 1,2,3,4 etc.?

Yes, the ∑ always goes up in values of one, eg \sum\limits_{i=1}^n, you can't put "2π" on top. :wink:

(btw, your f(θi) notation is weird … it should be something like f(2πi/180) )
 
The upper limit of i should be 359, since you have divided the domain into 359 intervals, and you started with i=0. It is not a matter of degrees or radians. Also the function points are θi and θi+1 or θi and θi + h.

Your sub-scripting for θ is also messy. For the sum you are using index subscripts while for the integral you are sub-scripting by angle values.
 
Thank you for the replies.

Is this better now?

W=\displaystyle\int^{\theta_{2\pi}}_{\theta_{0}} \tau d\theta\approx \frac{h}{2}\displaystyle\sum\limits_{k=0}^{359} (f(\frac{k\pi}{180})+f(\frac{(k+1)\pi}{180}))
 
or would this be more appropriate?

W=\displaystyle\int^{\theta_{2\pi}}_{\theta_{0}} \tau d\theta\approx \frac{\pi}{360}\displaystyle\sum\limits_{\theta=0}^{359} (f(\theta)+f(\theta+1))

How could I adjust this to follow the same formatting as above?

\displaystyle\int^{\theta_{2\pi}}_{\theta_{0}} \tau d\theta\approx(\theta_{2\pi}-\theta_{0})\frac{f(\theta_{0})+f(\theta_{2\pi})}{2}
 
Hi Kalus! :smile:

(just got up :zzz: …)

I'm not sure what the relation is between your τ and your f :confused:

I would expect to see something like

W=\displaystyle\int^{2\pi}_0 f(\theta) d\theta\approx \frac{1}{360}\displaystyle\sum\limits_{k=0}^{359} (f(k\pi/180)+f((k+1)\pi/180))
 
Hi tiny-tim,

τ, the torque is a function of θ. I guess I should avoid using f at all?

I've changed it to this now:

The trapezoidal rule, which says:
\displaystyle\int^{b}_{a}f(x) dx\approx(b-a)\frac{f(a)+f(b)}{2}
Applied to the work integration:
\displaystyle\int^{\theta_{2\pi}}_{\theta_{0}} \tau d\theta\approx(2\pi)\frac{\tau(0)+\tau(2\pi)}{2}
Since one cycle is split into 360 uniformly spaced points, or 359 segments, with $1^{\circ}$ spacing, this gives a step size of h=\frac{2\pi}{360}=\frac{\pi}{180}
The integration can then be found with:

W=\displaystyle\int^{\theta_{2\pi}}_{\theta_{0}} \tau d\theta\approx \frac{\pi}{360}\displaystyle\sum\limits_{\theta=0}^{359} (\tau(\theta)+\tau(\theta+1))

Since the graph is in graph and τ is calculated in degrees it would be better for the summation to be in degrees. I have expressed the 1 degree step size in radians (pi/180), which becomes (pi/360) at the start when divided through by 2 following the formula.

Is this the best solution?
 
Yes, that's fine. :smile:

(except your \displaystyle\int^{\theta_{2\pi}}_{\theta_{0}} d\theta should be \displaystyle\int^{2\pi}_0 d\theta …

θ goes from 0 to 2π, not from θo to θ)
 
Thanks :) I've adjusted that and it looks great now.
 

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