What Is the Meaning of Meaning?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of "meaning," particularly in relation to life and existence. Participants explore philosophical inquiries about the nature of meaning, its importance, and its implications, referencing thinkers like Nietzsche and existentialism. The scope includes theoretical and conceptual considerations, as well as personal reflections on purpose and motivation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question what it means for life or anything to have "meaning" and why it is considered preferable to a state of "meaninglessness."
  • There is a distinction made between "meaning" and "purpose," with some arguing that purpose applies universally while meaning is individual.
  • One participant suggests that the search for meaning may stem from a desire for motivation or happiness, rather than a metaphysical necessity.
  • Another participant argues that asking about the meaning of life assumes there is an answer that affirms meaning, which they view as an unproven assumption.
  • Existentialist perspectives are introduced, suggesting that meaning is not inherent but rather something individuals create through their actions.
  • Concerns are raised about the interpretation of Nietzsche's philosophy, with some participants asserting that he emphasizes the necessity of creating one's own meaning in the absence of divine purpose.
  • There are discussions about the perceived contradictions in Nietzsche's atheism and his philosophical inquiries into meaning.
  • Some participants express frustration with the interpretations of Nietzsche's works, suggesting that many opinions about his intent may misrepresent his actual writings.
  • Questions are posed about the nature of belief and understanding in relation to Nietzsche's philosophy, including whether he intended to convey certain ideas or if they have been misinterpreted.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of meaning and its significance, with no clear consensus reached. There are competing interpretations of Nietzsche's philosophy and differing opinions on whether life inherently possesses meaning or if it is a construct of human thought.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions reference Nietzsche's works and existentialism, but there are limitations in the interpretations presented, as well as unresolved questions regarding the implications of meaning and purpose.

  • #31
Langbein said:
"To have the full responsibility for creating the meaning"
"..we can't avoid giving life meaning."

Essentialism - Existentialism
Essence - Existence
Being - Becoming
Being responsible - Taking responsibility

From an existentialist point of view we are responsible for our own birth, even though, as Sartre says, we are 'thrown into the world', without asking to exist, because every day we live, we reaffirm our life. We can't avoid it, so the brave, the strong, take responsibility for it, even though it was thrust upon us.
 
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  • #32
I guess some people will not agree with me, but to explain myself a little bit bether:

As I will see it, when existensialism is explaind as something like an object observed from the outside from some "neutral observation platform" the idea of what extensialism is lost.

The basic principle about extensialism is that it can not be understood as an object observed from the outside that will meet som criteria A,B and C.

The prinsiple behing existensialism, as I see it, is that it is the reference and the observation platform itself. Because of this existensialism can only be understood, as I see it "from the inside" as a way for looking at and observing the world and the existence with "existensialism" as the refference.

Because of this relationship there is not only one "existensialism" but a number of variants like "the world of Kierkegaard", "the world of Heidegger", Sartre, Nietzche, etc.

To understand a philosofer like Heidegger as an example, it will give a rather poor meaning to read him while looking at him like an object from the outside, while practising "technical thinking" like derived from Mathematics, Physics and Technology.

To understand Heidegger, as an example, you will have to enter the world of Heidegger to see the world like a Heidegger. When reading books written by Heidegger it will, as I see it be necessary first to enter the world of Heidegger, and to use Heidegger as the refference for understanding Heidegger. It is not possible, as I will see it to understand Heidegger from som outside neutral observation platform.

To say it with the Kierkegaard slogan: "Truth is subjectivity".


This theme was a small but interesting divergence from the original question "Why should life have a meaning ?" Some people thing that exitensialism is about making your own meaning of life, and some other (like me) believes that exitensialism more is about in which way you/we are present in time and existence.

Did we get any good arguments why life should have a meaning ?
 
  • #34
Why should life have a meaning ?


Life has a meaning because without the thought of having a purpose or a part of a giant scheme would send some people into chaos they would say that i have no purpose in life i should just kill my self


but there really is no meaning in life its just a instinctive theory that without something there to look for your lost your self and have to idea what is happening.


If there was a meaning of life it would be to search for a meaning of life( if that made any sense)
 
  • #35
Well, I will in some way agree.

Back to the divergence to existensialism that I think is an important one.

The interresting part of extensialism is that it is not only some theory of how to find a meaning of life, but it is also some ideas about how to be present in in the time and in the the world.

As I have already mentioned existensialism in general might not be understod well as an object observed from some external refference platform, it should rather be the refference itself, but I think this link can give some interesting info about existensialism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_and_Time

One interesting side with the Heidegger way og being into the world is that there is also, as I would see it, somthing in common with the Hedegger way of beeing into the world and the Heidegger way of thinking, and eastern philosofy traditions, derived from chineese philosophy and Budhism. I googled up some ideas about this part of the problem:

http://faculty.vassar.edu/brvannor/heidegger.html

If you asked the question "why should life have a meaning" western philosopher I think you easyly would get an answer about a God, something about making the meaning, or something about maoral, while the eastern philosopher might say somethink like: "Well it don't need to, as all life got it own built in meaning."
 
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  • #36
Langbein said:
Some people ask about "the meaning of life".

But what does it then mean that one's life or "anything" has a "meaning" ?

But what is then the meaning of the meaning, and why is meaning such a good thing to have ? Why isn't the condition of "no meaning at all" bether than the condition of "having a meaning" ?

What is then meaning ?

Nietzche speaks about the new meaning about everything and why values have to be reorientated and rechoosed or reevaluated, but I can not see that he give any arguments why there should be a meaning at all ?

What is "meaning" and why is "meaning" such a good thing, and why is not "meaningsless" or "freedom from meaning" a more preferable condition ?

If "meaning" should be something importent or preferable is it then a good idea to live ones life without knowing what meaning is, or why it is important ?

The simplest of answer is that Life must have a meaning because a meaningless life is simply not worth living. Try to think and act senselessly or non-directionally and you'll probably appreciate precisely what I am getting at here.
 
  • #37
I have not read the rest of the posts, but I will post about this:

Langbein said:
Could the answer to this question:
"Why is a part of the the human nature to ask for a meaning ?"

Well, my friend, you are asking about... what?
I mean: it is natural to you to ask about the meaning of life?
You are a human, right?
You may deny that you have interest in the meaning of life, but anyways you are speaking about it. As you are human, I assume, then probably it is natural to all humans to be concerned about it.
Your answer to this question may differ from mine, but I think it is a trully interesting topic for all us humans.
Me, I don´t think much about it, because it is long ago I found what I want. So I just do things, which involves to think about things and to comunicate my thinking to others.


I agree with WhatIf... in this:

WhatIf...? said:
Why should life have a meaning ?
Life has a meaning because without the thought of having a purpose or a part of a giant scheme would send some people into chaos they would say that i have no purpose in life i should just kill my self

Except, you can delete "Life has a meaning because".

--------------------------------
If you like this post, try my blog: http://southern-central.blogspot.com; and please post some comments: I would appreciate it.
 
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  • #38
hi.
I wanted this to be my first post on the forum because i feel it is where I can best be of assisstance.
The purpose of your life is to induce change.
The meaning is irrelevant.
It is so because the meaning is derived from the change in the world(taking that step out of bed at that exact time) can lable giving "you"(as a being) a definition.
And something defined has meaning:Mathematical Theorems, labels from the physical and spiritual world,...all the way to vague ideals like "good" and "evil". Give the person (your name here) a meaning/definition.
 
  • #39
Mr.6Lived said:
The purpose of your life is to induce change.

That may be your purpose, but life itself has none, it just is.
You can make of it what you will.
 
  • #40
Well it does because that is the only thing different from you and the stuff the computer your at is made of. You are able to induce change it is not.
 
  • #41
Mr.6Lived said:
Well it does because that is the only thing different from you and the stuff the computer your at is made of. You are able to induce change it is not.

You're going to have to define 'induce change' because my computer used to crash all the time, and that had nothing to do with anything I intended to 'induce', and the 'change' was pretty abrupt.

Human ego is of course much more proficient.
 
  • #42
Life has no meaning beyond itself. If we need a purpose or menaing to live we will never be free. Each one can give or find a personal meaning or purpose, however, they will be ALWAYS enclosed within the limits of life itself.
That is one of the major problems of human beings. We cannot live life (although some do) without looking desperately for a meaning. Being able to see and accept the fact that life has no meaning is too painful for our ego.
The idea or necessity that life have to have a meaning may have a genetic root. Life has no meaning and we should be totally comfortable with this fact.
 
  • #43
Mmmm... I think that when you guys are saying "life has no meaning" is just a justification for you saying "I will do whatever I want, without considering consequences". I mean, there is some Ethics all around this discusion.
I think we always give ourselves a meaning, at least some objectives, like "enjoying life". It is poor, but it is an objectif and a meaning after all.
 
  • #44
Tattva said:
Mmmm... I think that when you guys are saying "life has no meaning" is just a justification for you saying "I will do whatever I want, without considering consequences". QUOTE]

I don't see the conection betweent the statement that "life has no meaning" with living that life without considering the consequences of our acts. You can accept the fact that this is a meaningless life and act ethically and being happy. That is exactly my point, life doens't have to have a meaning for us to act and feel that way.
 
  • #45
Tattva, giving a personal meaning to our own life doesn't indicate that life itself has any meaning. We create a subjective meaning or purpose in order to better deal with the fact that we will die some day and that our existence is absolutly meaningless.
 
  • #46
Meaning is direction. No direction leads to anomie, which brings confusion and a dreadful sense of loss after one thinks on death. People need to feel the pull of a direction to keep motivated. The logic is that if our actions mean nothing in the end, why go on through times of tremendous hardship? Why not just end it? It's a terrifying notion because we all have deeply rooted feelings of self-preservation. If it will have "all been worth it," because our lives became worth more than the sum of their parts and so have been preserved past death. The ultimate idea would be that we are all immortal.

This is why religion is so pervasive. People fear that the religion might be true and so because of this find themselves at the will of whoever created the religion. This is also how many destructive cults are formed (which is what most religions are to begin with). Some people will even go so far as to kill themselves if they believe it will preserve themselves.

To illustrate: If you are cutting steaks and you cut your finger off by accident and it could not be reattached, every time you look at where your finger once was you will feel ashamed and regret it. What was the point of the sacrifice? It was for nothing. If you saved someone's life who was nearly cleaved in two by a giant meteor consisting of jagged metalic rocks, but all you lost was your finger and you became an instant celebrity for it, then millions of dollars poured in from people from around the country in sympathy, you will probably look upon your knub later with a sense of pride and a sense of wonder at the awesome phenomenon. You achieved something worthwhile (because you believe the value of your finger was much lower then the end result, which was the life of another saved and heaps of useful money and glory). The same holds true with life. If you can see your hardships and then finally the loss of your life as paling in comparison to the awesomeness of your purpose, then you won't be so terrified to die. It will all have been worth it.

I am unsure how much of this phenomenon is taught and how much manifests itself innately.

However, I don't think it's necessary to trick yourself into feeling comforted by such things as cults, spirituality, quack nonsense, or religion. I think a person can develop meaning for their lives and to exist onward in the lives in others, even after death. One must realize that they will leave their mark upon the constantly changing surface that is the world of the living. In this sense, one lives on past their death and it will have all been "worth it," if they did something they felt was worthwhile, such as help others. To get through, day to day, a person needs to be motivated to at least get up and live in order to be happy. Ambition, motivation, and capability then determine whether a person feels happy. The higher the ambition, the more need for motivation and capability in order to feel as though, "it will all be worth it," to get through and be happy for doing so. Some cling to material goods, some cling to "riches in heaven," still others cling to their pride, some by bolstering it through helping others, which is a commonly repeated theme of how one becomes a "better person." (Not to say that every seeming selfless action is actually selfish. I think people being happy simply because others are happy and sad simply because others are sad is an indication that our motivations are not always purely selfish. I think humans want others to be happy and the resulting happiness that one feels around others who are happy isn't the motivation for that. It is something inate and unadulterated by thought and motivation, it is a reaction.)
 
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  • #47
Great post BNL.
 
  • #48
As stated by Joseph Campbell, it should not be the goal of humans to search for the meaning of life (e.g., what is the meaning of the ant, the bird, the tree, etc ?), but instead it should be the goal of humans (e.g., Homo sapiens), each and every day, to strive to experience the rapture of being alive.
 
  • #49
Hi
I think the question is "Why do we live ?", "Why do we exist ?", "Why ...", "What are we doing ?", "What do we mean ?" ...
 
  • #50
the meaning of life

we feel the need o discover why we are here. but who sa's that it is a self discovery thing, orthat once we find(if we havn't already) that anyone important in the world of philosophy of importance like the pope will acept and have many people acept it? it could be so it is a bound and gagged so we find it, all find nothing to do, kill ourselves, and it turns out there isn't one.
 
  • #51
quantum4577 said:
we feel the need o discover why we are here. but who sa's that it is a self discovery thing, orthat once we find(if we havn't already) that anyone important in the world of philosophy of importance like the pope will acept and have many people acept it? it could be so it is a bound and gagged so we find it, all find nothing to do, kill ourselves, and it turns out there isn't one.
Obviously English is not your first language, but your posts make no sense.
 
  • #52
If it's really that English is not your first language, rather than you're a severely inebriated English speaker, I would warn you that you probably almost never want to include the phrase "bound and gagged" in a sentence. And actually, severely inebriated English speakers should avoid that too.
 
  • #53
We are biological survival mechanisms for our genes are we not? In other words, our aim is to replicate, is it not?
 
  • #54
I think it is quite easy to confuse "meaning of life" with "meaning in life".
 
  • #55
out of whack said:
For a lot of people but probably not all, either meaning or purpose are just a way to ask for a reason to get up in the morning. It can be merely a sign of disinterest or depression from people looking for motivation, for a pep talk that rejuvenates them and gives them new energy to carry on. When "what's the point" can be given a satisfying answer then life becomes interesting again, people are happier and become more productive. The answer doesn't even have to be correct or relevant, it only needs to be acceptable by the one who asks the question in order to produce the desired effect. That's one reason why religion works so well for so many people.

So why should life have a meaning? Not out of metaphysical necessity, just to be happy.
Excellent post. I know many of my religious friends find it difficult to understand why people who do not believe in any ultimate meaning (purpose) to life are not all suicidal.

True happiness (for me) lies in finding happiness in life even though one accepts there is no ultimate purpose (meaning) to that life.

The past is history, the future a mystery. Today is a gift, that's why we call it the present. Enjoy it.
 
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  • #56
I think it depends who you ask to question to. If you spoke to a biologist he/she is most likely to say to reproduce, and pass your genes on to the next generation.
 
  • #57
Langbein said:
Some people ask about "the meaning of life".

But what does it then mean that one's life or "anything" has a "meaning" ?

But what is then the meaning of the meaning, and why is meaning such a good thing to have ? Why isn't the condition of "no meaning at all" bether than the condition of "having a meaning" ?

What is then meaning ?

Nietzche speaks about the new meaning about everything and why values have to be reorientated and rechoosed or reevaluated, but I can not see that he give any arguments why there should be a meaning at all ?

What is "meaning" and why is "meaning" such a good thing, and why is not "meaningsless" or "freedom from meaning" a more preferable condition ?

If "meaning" should be something importent or preferable is it then a good idea to live ones life without knowing what meaning is, or why it is important ?

Its a subjective question with a subjective answer. One person's meaning is another's "whatever". So the word and definition of "meaning' is only relative to one person at a time. Everyone pretends its a universal term but when you break down each person's idea of what a "meaning" is, you are going to get a wide variety of definitions and answers.

In the end the question should be posed like... 'what does your life mean to you?" And then collect individual answers that are relative to the life of each person.

One would say the meaning of their life was that they could eat the best pizza all the time.

One would say something about discovering cold fusion.

One would say the meaning of their life was how it afforded them so many experiences.

One might say the meaning of their life was to go to war and keep the flag out of the mud.

One might say the meaning of their life was that they were able to explain the meaning of their life.

And, like the differences in snowflakes, each answer would only resemble the next because... it was an answer to a question.
 
  • #58
Alright want a simple answer?
The meaning of life is whatever you want it to be. like honestly, think about it. none the less i myself have never sought after an answer to that question. Except my meaning is to be a better person for no reason at all, and anyways I enjoy making others happy. No one's meaning can possibly be the same alltogether. kind of like religious people. You don't find the same beliefs in all of them some of them think of it slightly different or some may think very different and some do think the same. But life means life itself and life applies to everyone. So therefore you should think about yourself and what you want your meaning to be. Unless you enjoy others telling ou what your going to do.
 

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