What is the R3 Point in the Earth-Sun Lagrangian System?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the R3 point in the Earth-Sun Lagrangian system, exploring its characteristics and implications within the context of the circular restricted three-body problem. Participants seek to clarify the concept and its mathematical formulation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference the concept of stationary solutions in the context of the circular restricted three-body problem, noting the significance of the R3 point.
  • One participant expresses difficulty in understanding the R3 point and requests an explanation.
  • A detailed explanation is provided, outlining the setup of the Earth and Sun in circular orbits and the placement of a test mass in a rotating reference frame.
  • The explanation includes mathematical expressions for the distance of the test mass from the Sun and the necessary conditions for gravitational forces to balance centripetal acceleration.
  • It is noted that the R3 point is located slightly outside the Earth's orbit but closer to the Sun than the Earth, which aligns with information from the referenced Wikipedia article.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the mathematical framework and characteristics of the R3 point, but there remains uncertainty regarding the clarity of the concept, as indicated by requests for further explanation.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves complex mathematical relationships and assumptions about the masses and distances involved, which may not be fully resolved within the posts.

zankaon
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian_point"
"stationary solutions of the circular restricted three-body problem" So for Earth sun nearly circular orbit, an object would be stationary. Quite interesting site.
 
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It is an interesting subject, for the life of me i can not understand the R3 point, maybe some one will be kind and explain.
 
wolram said:
It is an interesting subject, for the life of me i can not understand the R3 point, maybe some one will be kind and explain.

Suppose that the only two masses in the universe are the Earth, the Sun, and a tiny little test mass over which we have control. The Earth and Sun are in circular orbits about the Sun-Earth center of mass. Like any of the other Lagrange points, it is most convenient to work in a rotating reference frame whose origin is the Sun-Earth center of mass and rotating such the Sun and Earth have a constant position.

I'll use subscripts "e" and "s" to denote the Earth and Sun. Put a tiny mass at some distance [itex]R_e-\epsilon_r[/itex] from the Sun but opposite the Earth. We want to set [itex]\epsilon_r[/itex] so that the point orbit will orbit the Sun-Earth center of mass with exactly the same rotation rate as the Earth and Sun orbit about the Sun-Earth center of mass.

Denoting the ratio of the Earth's mass to the Sun's mass as k, [itex]k=M_e/M_s[/itex], our test point is a distance [itex]R_e(1+k/(1+k)-\epsilon_r/Re)[/tex] from the center of mass. To make Newton's laws work in this rotating frame we need to add a fictitious centripetal acceleration [itex]a_{frame} = R_e(1+k/(1+k)-\epsilon_r/Re)\omega^2[/itex]. The frame rotation rate is determined by Newton's second law,<br /> [itex]\omega^2 = G(M_s+M_e)/R_e^3 = (1+k)GM_s/R_e^3[/itex]. We want to place the our test mass so that the gravitational attraction to the Sun and to the Earth exactly counterbalances this centripetal acceleration. After a little math, [itex]\epsilon_r \approx 7/12kR_e[/itex]. That is, the point is a little closer to the Sun than is the Earth. However, the Earth orbits the Sun-Earth center of mass at a distance [itex]R_e(1-k/(1+k)) \approx Re(1-k)[/itex], so the L3 point is a little outside the Earth's orbit, but seemingly paradoxically a bit closer to the Sun than is the Earth.<br /> <br /> Which is what the Wiki article says: "L3 in the Sun–Earth system exists on the opposite side of the Sun, a little outside the Earth's orbit but slightly closer to the Sun than the Earth is."[/itex]
 

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