What is the Relationship Between Position and Velocity Vectors?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between position and velocity vectors, specifically focusing on how to derive time from these vectors. Participants explore the mathematical implications of vector division and integration in the context of motion.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that to solve for time t, one could divide the position vector by the velocity vector, but expresses uncertainty about how to perform this operation.
  • Another participant asserts that division by a vector is not defined and questions the underlying problem the first participant is trying to solve.
  • A later post clarifies that if given a vectorial velocity and a position vector, there may not be a variable t such that the velocity equals the derivative of the position vector with respect to time.
  • One participant proposes an alternative approach using integration of the velocity vector to solve for time.
  • Another participant presents a formula involving the modulus of vectors and suggests that time can be expressed as an integral of 1/v with respect to position.
  • A question is raised regarding the existence of derivatives with respect to vectors, challenging the notion of vector division and referencing matrix calculus.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of dividing vectors and the methods for deriving time from position and velocity vectors. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing approaches presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the definitions and operations involving vectors, particularly concerning division and integration. The discussion reflects a range of assumptions about the mathematical treatment of vectors in physics.

Jhenrique
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If:
[tex]\vec{v}=\frac{\mathrm{d} \vec{r}}{\mathrm{d} t}[/tex]
so:
[tex]\\ \vec{v} = \frac{d\vec{r}}{dt} \\ \\ \vec{v}\;dt = d\vec{r} \\ \\ dt = \frac{d\vec{r}}{\vec{v}} \\ \\ \int dt = \int \frac{d\vec{r}}{\vec{v}} \\ \\ t = \int \frac{d\vec{r}}{\vec{v}}[/tex]
Is true?
Solving the equation for time t, is need divide the position vector r by velocicty vector v... But I don't know do division between vectors...
 
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Division by a vector is not defined.

It appears you are trying to solve some problem and you thought this might be a way to attack that problem. What is the problem that are you trying to solve?
 
Given a vectorial velocity and a position vector, I want to calcule o time t.
In other words, I want solving the equation above for variable t.
[tex]\\ \vec{v} = \frac{d\vec{r}}{dt}[/tex]
 
In general, if you are given [itex]\vec{v}[/itex] and [itex]\frac{d\vec{r}}{dt}[/itex], there will NOT BE a variable t such that [tex]\vec{v}= \frac{d\vec{r}}{dt}[/tex]!

You can try [tex]\int \vec{v}dt= \int\vec{dr}[/tex] and then solve the resulting equation for t.
 
[itex]\vec{r} \vec{u}= \vec{r} \frac{d\vec{r}}{dt}[/itex]
[itex]\vec{r} \vec{u} =\frac{1}{2} \frac{dr^{2}}{dt}[/itex]
[itex]dt= \frac{dr^{2}}{\vec{r} \vec{u}}=\frac{dr^{2}}{ru cosθ}[/itex]

is that correct?
 
In this case, the only solution is to consider the modulus of vectos: t = ∫ 1/v dr. Correct!?
 

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