What is the Thread of Arts in Everyday Life?

[rewebster]

http://www.monticello.org/gallery/jefferson/trumbull.jpg
http://www.monticello.org/gallery/jefferson/trumbull.html

"Jean Fouquet, self portrait (1450). The earliest portrait miniature, and possibly the earliest formal self-portrait.[1]"

by way of http://artroots.com/art/art18_index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portrait_miniature

"Portrait miniatures began to flourish in 16th century Europe and the art was practiced during the 17th century and 18th century. They were especially valuable in introducing people to each other over distances; a nobleman proposing the marriage of his daughter might send a courier with her portrait to visit potential suitors. Soldiers and sailors might carry miniatures of their loved ones while traveling, or a wife might keep one of her husband while he was away."

Most miniatures were about 2 inches to 5 inches in width and were the most popular before photography (before the 1840's). They continued for some time due to their continued admiration even into the 1920's.

http://www.equinoxantiques.com/inventory/RT1110005-md.jpg
http://www.equinoxantiques.com/detail/RT1110005

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q="miniature portrait"&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

 

[baywax]

=rewebster;1740400]

Most miniatures were about 2 inches to 5 inches in width and were the most popular before photography (before the 1840's). They continued for some time due to their continued admiration even into the 1920's.

These are incredible rewebster. Do you collect or paint this sort of stuff?

Here are some of my more recent undertakings. And some old digital drawing.

The closeup is of the Trump Tower on Miami Beach, Aqualina. The hole in the ceiling is for a gigantic chandelier that came later. The area was the foyer and became a formal dining area. The design was a tough one and needed major digital manipulation before producing the metalic floral/nouveau painted panels.

The diagram showing the telomeres in relation to a chromosome and the make-up of a chromosome is from some work that led up to stem cell research and treatments.

You can see we had an advantage over the painters who did or do ceilings with scaffolding.

 

[baywax]

Here's two more shots from projects that happened over the last 3 years.

There is a composite of the chinoiserie (chinese style gold leaf and powder decorative applications on faux sagging linen and red lacquer) which was finally finished and installed at Bishop's Gate in London UK. And there's the private library ceiling in Dallas representing the four corners of the Earth with literary figures from throughout the ages.

This is all fun stuff that takes forever to figure out.

 

[baywax]

The fireplace alone cost $20,000. It is an originally handcarved wooden frame in a style depicting chinese lifestyles by French artists from the turn of the century. It was stripped of paint that happened during the 30s and guilded with 23.990 carat gold leaf, like the rest of the room.

 

[rewebster]

baywax---nice genes, there----when people 'think' about DNA or any of those small 'things' people tend to think of artist's rendering without thinking that 'some' artist had to create the imagined view due to the inability to photograph something that small with 'some' sense of what they are looking at (to be able to visualize it)--often those renderings are what most people then tend to think of when they do think of something like 'DNA'. --like the bubbling surface or the spaghetti in that 'Brian Greene's' PBS special.----nice work.

you're not doing those anymore?

I can't see the fireplace yet---so you're doing specialized construction and restoration?

yes--I've had some miniatures, and do still have some ---two that could be 'something', in that, they could (with a lot of could there) be so good, they would make the news if they did turn out to be 'correct/right' (that's art talk for 'not reproductions or fakes'). I've some small icons too that one dealer thought could be 16th to 18th century. But, no, I never got into painting that small. I've known a couple people that did collect them. There was a renewed interest back in the 1920's about miniatures, many books during that time and repro's were made then that tend to confuse beginners (those go for $40-150 depending on the skill level).

 

[baywax]

baywax---nice genes, there----when people 'think' about DNA or any of those small 'things' people tend to think of artist's rendering without thinking that 'some' artist had to create the imagined view due to the inability to photograph something that small with 'some' sense of what they are looking at (to be able to visualize it)--often those renderings are what most people then tend to think of when they do think of something like 'DNA'. --like the bubbling surface or the spaghetti in that 'Brian Greene's' PBS special.----nice work.

you're not doing those anymore?

I can't see the fireplace yet---so you're doing specialized construction and restoration?

yes--I've had some miniatures, and do still have some ---two that could be 'something', in that, they could (with a lot of could there) be so good, they would make the news if they did turn out to be 'correct/right' (that's art talk for 'not reproductions or fakes'). I've some small icons too that one dealer thought could be 16th to 18th century. But, no, I never got into painting that small. I've known a couple people that did collect them. There was a renewed interest back in the 1920's about miniatures, many books during that time and repro's were made then that tend to confuse beginners (those go for $40-150 depending on the skill level).

Thanks rewbrewster... er... webster...(getting close to Kilkenny time)

Try sending photos to Antique Road Show... they may want to help you identify your artifacts.

I haven't done biomed stuff for quite a while now. I've changed horses a few times since. That drawing is from so long ago that stem cells were barely a pipe dream in terms of treatment.

The last of it was the work I did with Stemcell Techologies, my drawings are all over their product info. I tried to find the most interesting ones to do with cell separation using anti-bodies attached to iron colloids that are then "pulled out" by external magnets. This was promising for collection of specific cell types and also for separating infected T-cells.

The drawing you saw is from research that only made it into face cream... anti-telomerase was going to inhibit the way cancer tends to preserve the telomeres from shortening. That's why a cancer cell can be called an immortal cell... because in never loses information for the next division. The problems here were complex because any treatment might act to hasten other cells to degenerate. I loved working on this kind of stuff though... the possibilities are endless with regard to diminishing cancer ailments and deaths.

During the time of those decorative finishes and murals we were considered artisans who applied our skill to, ideally, finished construction. It is never finished. The Aquilina was hit by two hurricanes during construction and once after our art was on the ceiling. It made for double the money but tended to wear away at the fun...

You can always double click or click on the pending thumbs to see the attachments.

Thank you very much... there's more in store... thanks for putting a thread like this up!

 

[rewebster]

I like both the room and the 'ceiling'-----you DO have a fun job plus traveling---my, my---are the figures 'figural' (3-D) or painted?----(isn't it amazing how jobs/careers hinge so much with the previous job/career/commissions? ---bio-med to ceilings) what's next?

I've shown the pair of miniatures to several dealers, etc. and they've told me they should be seen by someone like from the Hague area, or the Rijksmuseum specifically. I think, from what I've seen and segments from the Roadshow, they'd have a 'estimate' but still would recommend 'further research'.

 

[baywax]

I like both the room and the 'ceiling'-----you DO have a fun job plus traveling---my, my---are the figures 'figural' (3-D) or painted?----(isn't it amazing how jobs/careers hinge so much with the previous job/career/commissions? ---bio-med to ceilings) what's next?

I've shown the pair of miniatures to several dealers, etc. and they've told me they should be seen by someone like from the Hague area, or the Rijksmuseum specifically. I think, from what I've seen and segments from the Roadshow, they'd have a 'estimate' but still would recommend 'further research'.

The ceiling is done in casine pigments which is a milk-based paint. Then they're sealed in with an oil based glaze. Don't ask me what happened during the glazing.

The figures are all from history and literature. The maps are all of Italian cities and in the centre is Italy in whole.

The 1000 sq ft ceiling doesn't actually go into a vault, that's an illusion to lift the whole thing up. We not only sweated over the composition of this one... even after planning it all out.. you know its never what you plan for... but we also sweated a lot because its Dallas. For Eskimos like us it was very hot. Just love Texan Hospitality!

That's good you have some leads for verifying your guesses about the miniatures. They are lovely and I've always wanted to try doing tiny paintings. You see them in many collections from the Group of Seven etc.. (Canadian). I'm pretty used to doing big, broad strokes for the time being. It almost reminds me of Scratch Board drawings because of the tiny strokes.

 

[baywax]

Here's some examples of what I was doing before and during biomedical illustrations.

Both of these are etchings on copper and then run through hand fed rolling presses on to rag paper. You can imagine how long people stayed after I asked them to "come up and see my etchings".

I thought Andre would like the mastodon etching. This was titled "two extinctions" and depicts the mastodon skeleton dancing on piano ivories.

PS. these are lousy, blurry photos of them.

PPS. the pigeon was found behind a wall an old church in Montreal, mummified.

 

[baywax]

And here are the cartoons for a large painting that is in New York. These were part of a series about nuclear holocaust. And strangely peaceful. edit, a fresco actually.

 

[rewebster]

The pigeon is good --I like it----"The Squab of Death"---how many in the edition?

 

[baywax]

The pigeon is good --I like it----"The Squab of Death"---how many in the edition?

I only did about 14 in the run. Mostly for my own edification.

 

[rewebster]

http://www.distinctivebooks.com/Ebay/1542l.jpg
http://cgi.ebay.com/EXRARE-VER-SACRUM-GUSTAV-KLIMT-12-ISSUES-W-COVERS-1898_W0QQitemZ120264580803QQihZ002QQcategoryZ29223QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120263821412&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=002

Two really nice books--plus he has some others.

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZdistinctivebooks

 

[rewebster]

And here are the cartoons for a large painting that is in New York. These were part of a series about nuclear holocaust. And strangely peaceful. edit, a fresco actually.

Are they yours?----Where? a ceiling?


here's a link for frescoes for those not too familiar:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresco

 

[baywax]

Are they yours?----Where? a ceiling?


here's a link for frescoes for those not too familiar:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresco

I am a huge fan of art nouveau... or at least I was. Then, as you can see in the ceiling at the Aqualina, after spending many months doing plant and vine motifs... I just saw it as decoration... like much of the stuff I've done in people's homes, palaces and estate (and casinos!). Also, when you do art for the United Arab Emerates, their religious beliefs prohibit the use of any depictions of animals, people etc... sometimes you get way with birds and plants... but, for the most part, you end up doing nouveau design elements.

The nuke scene is mine. The cartoons are used to trace your images on to still-wet plaster... sometimes you don't have time to trace and have to freehand it.

When Michelangelo Buonarroti frescoed the Sistine Chapel ceilings, he had to use a lot of free hand application and consequently provided us with some incredibly spontaneous images that resemble japanese and chinese water colour. The recent cleaning of the Sistine Chapel frescoes only confirms this view. ... of his paintings reveal a web of unblended color and brushstrokes. With the time constraints of the technique, Michelangelo unwittingly became one of the first impressionist painters, about 300 years before Monet or Cezanne.

My chaotic nuclear fresco was for a long wall. Long before 9/11. The fresco technique is as scary as hell. Its not that the end product is better than a canvas or other applications, frescos represent permanence and so on. They're just classy. My client would like to remain unannounced.

 

[rewebster]

Fresco work is definitely a specialized 'niche'---(actually when I asked 'where', I was wondering if it on a 'ceiling' or wall)--from what I've seen, ceilings take a little more work.

I'm guessing you're from the UK? (colour/color)---have you been to the Tate?

 

[baywax]

Fresco work is definitely a specialized 'niche'---(actually when I asked 'where', I was wondering if it on a 'ceiling' or wall)--from what I've seen, ceilings take a little more work.

I'm guessing you're from the UK? (colour/color)---have you been to the Tate?

I am Canadian... canuck, lumberjack, eskimo, snowback... cousin to the Americans... the guys that would have liked to help with Independence except we were totally over run by the swarmy dogs.

Yeah, ceilings hurt your neck and you can fall a lot further.

The scariest thing about frescos is that you are applying the pigments while the plaster is wet. It is a grey colour that will eventually dry white. So you do not have a clear idea of what you've just painted. You have to mix on white to get an idea before applying it. Michelangelo had an uncanny talent for this... sometimes going directly on to the wet plaster with his colour. The guy gives me the willies. The cleaned version is nutzo. You'd think it was done by a modernist.

The attached shows how bright it is after 300 years of incense smoke and god knows what else was cleaned off!
I haven't seen the Tate. But London is fantastic, generally.

Have you been to the Duke of York Pub?

 

[rewebster]

yeah, thanks, I did. Each one is totally different to work on, so each one has a different 'technique' so, it's impossible for me to say 'how to do one'. What may not even 'touch' one in the way of cleaning, will take the paint off to the canvas on another---What people do like is my in-painting when there rips, tears, and chunks of paint or canvas missing--some restorers can't match brush strokes, or especially the paint.

on the one above, the photos were taken in two totally different light sources (and a low end camera), so some colors still doesn't match up right.

 

[baywax]

yeah, thanks, I did. Each one is totally different to work on, so each one has a different 'technique' so, it's impossible for me to say 'how to do one'. What may not even 'touch' one in the way of cleaning, will take the paint off to the canvas on another---What people do like is my in-painting when there rips, tears, and chunks of paint or canvas missing--some restorers can't match brush strokes, or especially the paint.

on the one above, the photos were taken in two totally different light sources (and a low end camera), so some colors still doesn't match up right.

Thank you.

I'm totally restoring my outlook with a beer right now and things are looking brighter.

I was wondering because it is such a tricky business. One doesn't know what or how the artist wanted to convey with an image or painting. What one calls dirt may have been an application that is, in the mind of the artist, integral to the portrayal. Scary!

Anyway... later days!

 

[rewebster]

hey, baywax---do you have a website for the company you work for? (you don't have to post it if you don't want to)

 

[Cyrus]

I just finished watching a GREAT movie called "POLLOCK" staring Ed Harris. Really good movie.

 

[rewebster]

I saw this on ebay and thought it looked so nice that I would post it.

http://www.antiques-supermarket.com/ebay/april21-08/as-1153_03.jpg

http://cgi.ebay.com/Great-antique-oil-on-board-woman-painting-as-1153_W0QQitemZ380031767690QQihZ025QQcategoryZ551QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

A lot of older paintings need a light cleaning and this one would too

http://www.antiques-supermarket.com/ebay/april21-08/as-1153_04.jpg

 

[lisab]

I just finished watching a GREAT movie called "POLLOCK" staring Ed Harris. Really good movie.

I don't know much about Jackson Pollock, but I just don't "get" that kind of art. If he was working on a painting and screwed it up, how would he (or anyone) know?

 

[rewebster]

I am Canadian... canuck, lumberjack, eskimo, snowback... cousin to the Americans... the guys that would have liked to help with Independence except we were totally over run by the swarmy dogs.

Yeah, ceilings hurt your neck and you can fall a lot further.

The scariest thing about frescos is that you are applying the pigments while the plaster is wet. It is a grey colour that will eventually dry white. So you do not have a clear idea of what you've just painted. You have to mix on white to get an idea before applying it. Michelangelo had an uncanny talent for this... sometimes going directly on to the wet plaster with his colour. The guy gives me the willies. The cleaned version is nutzo. You'd think it was done by a modernist.

The attached shows how bright it is after 300 years of incense smoke and god knows what else was cleaned off!

My place looks like that-not frescoes, but paintings (except for the ceiling --its still bare)----not very much of the blank walls still showing.

I picked up a mural 'fragment' by Willy Pogany not too long ago, and it was painted on canvas with remnants of plaster on the back. I'm guessing he glued the canvas to the wall. I tried to read up on him, as there's quite a bit out there on him, but couldn't find out whether he painted first, and then glued the canvas up, or vise-versa. It's still a beautiful piece as a fragment--I bought it for that, the beauty of it--then found out later it was by Pogany.

I've thought about doing something 'sometime' on a couple of my ceilings on canvas glued up there. (that would get around some of the problems with plaster)

 

[rewebster]

I don't know much about Jackson Pollock, but I just don't "get" that kind of art. If he was working on a painting and screwed it up, how would he (or anyone) know?

my personal theory is that he couldn't paint the way he wanted to in figural work which he did with minor success. I try to use correlation in my thinking, and his move into the abstract is similar to someone moving out into the country side (they didn't like the city life), so he (Pollock) found something that he did like to do.

 

[baywax]

My place looks like that-not frescoes, but paintings (except for the ceiling --its still bare)----not very much of the blank walls still showing.

I picked up a mural 'fragment' by Willy Pogany not too long ago, and it was painted on canvas with remnants of plaster on the back. I'm guessing he glued the canvas to the wall. I tried to read up on him, as there's quite a bit out there on him, but couldn't find out whether he painted first, and then glued the canvas up, or vise-versa. It's still a beautiful piece as a fragment--I bought it for that, the beauty of it--then found out later it was by Pogany.

I've thought about doing something 'sometime' on a couple of my ceilings on canvas glued up there. (that would get around some of the problems with plaster)

Yes, that's a technique we used to use for long haul installations. Its very convenient to compose and produce a piece in studio then roll it up and ship it off to timbuc2. There are logistical loops and hoops to get over with that application. For instance there was a client who wanted a 17th century map in a 1000 sq ft dome. We figured out the logistics by taking a school sized globe, scoring the paper exterior into pie portions... ended up being 12 triangles, then pasting them back together inside out to represent the dome with the canvases pasted in it. You have to be very good at overlap cutting once its up. You have to be really good at placing the canvas once its soaked in glue.

The best glue for this application is a ceramic based wall paper paste. Its brown in colour. Sticks like nobody's business. But, I warn you, there will be mishaps and mayhem if you try this without several tests etc... It took years to perfect this technique. There are pieces where you cannot see one seam in the mural.

The canvas gauge is very important. 12 oz is too heavy. 10 oz is better. 6 oz is too light and the glue will come through and ruin your artwork. We managed to use all three and get away with it. Priming a canvas that's too thin will see it stuck to the wall when you want to remove your art work. Then you have a nice bit of art for the studio... but no contract because its stuck to the wall or ruined from prying it loose!

 

[rewebster]

My guess is that the canvas has just about got to be soaked in a thinned acrylic gesso, and coated again on the 'painting' side, maybe twice with the full strength with it.

Most of it on the walls is 'other people's art'---I've been buying (and selling) on the side since I was in college.

 

[baywax]

I don't know much about Jackson Pollock, but I just don't "get" that kind of art. If he was working on a painting and screwed it up, how would he (or anyone) know?

Its like trying to figure out the next wave of modernists. They're doing something that really seems junky or hyper or whathaveyou... but it is the very cutting edge of art. No one has done it. You might know of Marcel Duchamp who carried the cubist movement to NY. He also dabbled in the DADA movement. The DADA movement was an anti-war, anti-control movement and one of their most famous pieces was the Mona Lisa with a moustache.

At one of his shows he used an old urinal to place on the wall as an art piece. It was left as an original urinal but he signed it as "R.Mudd". It was known as Duchamp's Fountain.

These are pieces that resemble Pollock's work in that they were very new for the time and very controversial. No one could really get them... with the exception of artists and art critics.

When Duchamp did the "Nude Descending A Staircase", even though it was done in a traditional method... paint on canvas, it and he were panned like the plague.

The coolest thing about Jackson's painting is the motion and the residual motions of his action painting.

To tell you the truth, everyday the MOMA or other museums with Pollock's work in them are sweeping up to $20,000 worth of paint off the floor because he used house paint and marine enamels etc... in his work. They are not of archival quality.

 

[Cyrus]

I don't know much about Jackson Pollock, but I just don't "get" that kind of art. If he was working on a painting and screwed it up, how would he (or anyone) know?

Hehe, that's not how art works! If you watch the movie, it will help you 'get it'.

 

[rewebster]

These are pieces that resemble Pollock's work in that they were very new for the time and very controversial. No one could really get them... with the exception of artists and art critics.

When Duchamp did the "Nude Descending A Staircase", even though it was done in a traditional method... paint on canvas, it and he were panned like the plague.

The coolest thing about Jackson's painting is the motion and the residual motions of his action painting.

To tell you the truth, everyday the MOMA or other museums with Pollock's work in them are sweeping up to $20,000 worth of paint off the floor because he used house paint and marine enamels etc... in his work. They are not of archival quality.

I remember reading that one of Picasso's works in some museum had to be turned 'upside-down' for six months out of the year for the paint to get back in place, because, instead of using linseed oil, he used motor oil.