What is the velocity due to gravity between two point masses?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the gravitational interaction between two point masses, M and m, fixed at a distance R. The problem involves determining the velocity of mass m as it moves towards mass M under the influence of gravity, particularly focusing on the implications of the model when the two masses collide.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the mathematical formulation of gravitational force and its implications on velocity as the two masses approach each other. Questions arise regarding the consistency of the equations with Newton's Law of gravitation and the assumptions of point masses leading to infinite velocity upon collision.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively questioning the assumptions made in the model, particularly the treatment of masses as point-like. Some suggest that the infinite speed result is a consequence of this simplification, while others are examining the implications of potential energy changes as the masses approach each other.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing debate about the validity of using point masses in this scenario, especially in relation to real-world objects where finite sizes cannot be ignored. The discussion highlights the limitations of the model when applied to practical situations.

cromata

Homework Statement


-Two objects of negligable radius and masses M and m are fixed in space at the distance R. Gravity is the only force acting between those two bodies. At some point in time, body of mass m is realized and starts moving due to gravity toward statistical mass M.
Find v(x) and speed of body m when it collides with M [x is the distance between the objects]

Homework Equations


F=GMm/r2

The Attempt at a Solution


GMm/(R-x)^2=m dv/dt
GM/(R-x)^2 =dv*v/dx
GM ∫dx/(R-x)^2=∫v*dv [integral of dx goes from 0 to x, and v from 0 to v]
GM*[1/(R-x)-1/R]=½(v^2)
v(x)=sqrt(2GM/R) * sqrt[x/(R-x)]
and for this function, we get that the speed at the moment of impact (x=R) is infinity
-Same result is obtained using energy conservation law, but it doesn't make sense to me
 
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cromata said:
GMm/(R-x)^2=m dv/dt
If x is the distance between the two objects as you claim, is this expression consistent with Newton's Law of gravitation?
 
I made mistake, I found v(R-x)... but I'm not interrsted in that part of the problem (it's trivial). I just want to know why is v=infinity when two objects collide. Is it because in this sort of the problem we can't say that radius of objects is negligable?
-Because this result doesn't make any sense, for example if we have some object (some asteroid or smth) falling on Earth and we say that Earth's radius is negligable in comparison with the starting distance between Earth and that object, we would obtain that speed of that object is infinite when it hits Earth.
-Also if we have 2 small charges that attract each other (one is fixed, other is free to move) and distance between them is much larger than their radius. We would again obtain same result: infinite speed at the moment of collision.
 
The result that v = infinity when the two objects collide is an artifact of the model that assumes that there is such a thing as a point mass or point charge. Reason it out. You start with zero kinetic energy and finite potential energy. As the objects come closer, you convert potential energy to kinetic. Since the initial kinetic energy is zero, the instantaneous kinetic energy at point x is the absolute value of the change in potential energy. What happens to that change at x = 0 where the potential energy is infinite according to the model?
 
Gravitational potential energy at the beging of the motion is finite number (Egp1), and when they collide Egp2=-infinity
Ek(kintetic energy at the moment of colision)=|Egp1-Egp2|=infinity, hencr v=infinity. So the problem is in using point masses
 
cromata said:
So the problem is in using point masses
Yup.
 

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