What Makes Gravity the Ultimate Force in the Universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of gravity and its fundamental role in the universe, particularly in relation to concepts such as singularities, the Big Bang, and the structure of space and time. Participants explore theoretical implications and models in cosmology and physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that gravity is the most fundamental force, positing that it is responsible for the creation of time and space, and that it plays a crucial role in the formation of the universe.
  • Another participant argues that the concept of a singularity is model-dependent, indicating that singularities represent a breakdown of current theories and that scientists are actively working to modify these theories to avoid singularities.
  • A third participant references a previous discussion on the conditions leading to the Big Bang, noting that various models exist and expressing a preference for simpler models over more complex ones.
  • One participant mentions that singularities also occur in Quantum Electrodynamics and suggests that they can be addressed within the framework of Superstring Theory using the concept of Fuzzballs.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of singularities and the adequacy of current theories, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without consensus on the fundamental role of gravity or the implications of singularities.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific theoretical frameworks and the unresolved nature of the mathematical implications of singularities in various contexts.

Deicider
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"ultimate" gravity

Am not a scientist or physicist or even good at those,i have limited knowledge.
I've been wondering about gravity and with my humble knowledge am trying to making sense of it.

"Singularity" was the ultimate massive black hole,it exploded/expanded giving space and time.
It seems that unlike other forces gravity is the most fundamental,since it moves around stars and galaxies.
The most basic property of matter: attraction.Without it i don't think anything would form.

What i want to say is that it seems to me that gravity is the force that "creates" time and space.

If universe was crushed into a singularity that only means gravity "Pulled" space and time Inside the singularity,why? because it might be space and time itself.

We're assuming bang and crunch are caused by gravity(as far as i know).
If something like that can suppress time and space into a tiny bit and then expand space then its pretty obvious that they are directly associated.

Not taking account dark energy and matter which takes up 90%+ of the universe,other dimensions etc.
So am making a huge amateur assumptions.
Does this makes any sense?

Edit: just noticed it went to the wrong subforum,i think this goes somewhere in cosmology or smth.
 
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"Singularity" is a model-dependent idea. A singularity is a failure of some particular manmade theory.

So whether or not you have a singularity depends on which manmade theory you are using---it is a mathematical breakdown where the formulas start to give infinities or meaningless unreliable numbers.

A singularity is generally taken by scientists as a sign that the theory doesn't cover that case and has been pushed beyond its limits, so they start working on how to FIX IT. How to modify the theory so that the singularity breakdown will not occur.

This has happened repeatedly in different branches of physics.

In the case of cosmology the theory that fails is the 1915 version of General Relativity. When you use it to describe the early universe it breaks at the start of expansion. But it's a fine old classic theory and could do with some improvement.

So people have been hard at work developing cosmological models that don't develop a singularity, or glitch. Classic Einstein GR is almost 100 years old and it is widely recognized that it needs to be modified so as not to break down in extreme conditions (extreme density especially).
 
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Here's a discussion thread we had in Cosmology subforum called "Before Big Bang"
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=428978

It discussed various models physicists are working on that deal with what process or conditions could have led to the big bang and taken part at the onset of expansion.

Somewhere in that discussion thread somebody gave links to a one-hour BBC program on that topic. The BBC program was titled "What happened before the big bang"

The program covered a range of half dozen ideas some of which I think are too vague and fancy. My taste favors the simplest model that gets the job done so to speak. But people's assessments differ widely, so I will copy all 6 links. Each link is to a 10 minute segment.
So you get 60 minutes in all.YouTube - BBC Horizon 2010: 1/6 What Happened Before the Big Bang
YouTube - BBC Horizon 2010: 2/6 What Happened Before the Big Bang
YouTube - BBC Horizon 2010: 3/6 What Happened Before the Big Bang
YouTube - BBC Horizon 2010: 4/6 What Happened Before the Big Bang
YouTube - BBC Horizon 2010: 5/6 What Happened Before the Big Bang
YouTube - BBC Horizon 2010: 6/6 What Happened Before the Big Bang
 


Quantum Electrodynamics experiences singularities since the force of electromagnetism is dependent on distance therefore when your distance approaches zero your force diverges. Also Gravitational Singularities/Black Holes are an example of a singularity but can be solved in the context of Superstring Theory by using Fuzzballs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzball_(string_theory ). By the way I watched the documentary marcus posted and it's very informative, I loved the fact that was situated at the Perimeter Institute.
 
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