What makes virtual particles separate and come together?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of virtual particles, specifically what causes them to separate and come together, and how this relates to concepts like the uncertainty principle, cosmological inflation, and gravitational forces. Participants explore theoretical frameworks and implications without reaching a consensus.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that virtual particles arise due to the uncertainty principle, leading to a non-zero ground state of energy.
  • Others argue that the concept of virtual particles "popping into and out of existence" is more illustrative than factual, emphasizing that they are not directly observable.
  • A participant proposes that virtual particles may separate due to gravitational effects, particularly at event horizons, and that this separation could be linked to particle production in dynamic spacetime geometries.
  • There is a suggestion that cosmological inflation could transform virtual particles into real particles, with some participants questioning the relationship between the forces causing separation and the inflationary process itself.
  • Some contributions reference specific models and theories, such as Parker radiation and Schwinger particle production, as potential explanations for the phenomena discussed.
  • Participants share links to papers and resources related to inflationary models and virtual particle production, indicating ongoing exploration of these ideas.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a variety of views on the nature and behavior of virtual particles, with no clear consensus reached. The discussion includes competing models and interpretations, particularly regarding the relationship between virtual particles, inflation, and gravity.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in current understanding, including the dependence on theoretical frameworks and the lack of direct observational evidence for virtual particles. The discussion also highlights unresolved questions about the mechanisms behind particle separation and rejoining.

friend
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So virtual particles are supposed to pop into and out of existence because the uncertainty principle dictates a non-zero ground state of energy.

My question is what causes the virtual particles to separate from each other, presumably with some velocity with respect to each other. And then once separated, what causes them to come back together? Is it because opposite charges attract? Or is there something more fundamental?
 
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Generally virtual particles they don't 'pop into and out of existence'...nobody has ever detected that actually happening...it's an introductory illustrative way to think about more complex mathematics. One way such imaginary events might happen is when gravity yanks particles apart at a horizon [see below].

here is a better way to think about particle production...given a quantum field, say an idealized free electron not interacting...it's a field, you can't observe it...Now confine that field inside an event horizon, or capture that electron around a nucleus...it is confined when 'captured'...it resonates...it is finite in extent...it is a detectable particle! Analogous to wiggly violin string: clamp the ends, tighten it perhaps, it now resonates at certain frequencies...

and here is an even better description:


I think I got this from Wikipedia...wherever, I like the description:

..There is not a definite line differentiating virtual particles from real particles — the equations of physics just describe particles (which includes both equally). The amplitude that a virtual particle exists interferes with the amplitude for its non-existence; whereas for a real particle the cases of existence and non-existence cease to be coherent with each other and do not interfere any more. In the quantum field theory view, "real particles" are viewed as being detectable excitations of underlying quantum fields. As such, virtual particles are also excitations of the underlying fields, but are detectable only as forces but not particles. They are "temporary" in the sense that they appear in calculations, but are not detected as single particles. Thus, in mathematical terms, they never appear as indices to the scattering matrix, which is to say, they never appear as the observable inputs and outputs of the physical process being modeled. In this sense, virtual particles are an artifact of perturbation theory, and do not appear in a non-perturbative treatment...

On the other hand, even Stephen Hawking used a description of virtual particles separating at a black hole horizon to 'illustrate' Hawking radiation...although it had nothing to actually do with his mathematical calculations. The 'real; particle escapes to be observed.

Also, it is worth noting quantum FIELDS, extended versions of particles, that expand in space with expanding space can become 'particles', which we describe as quanta [localized versions] of fields...what we detect. There are a variety of ideas about how this might happen.

One way is via cosmological inflation: a dynamic spacetime geometry, like cosmolgicial inflation, can turn quantum fluctuations [ that we observe in the cosmic background radiation all around us] into particles at vast horizon scales. In other words, a changing, dynamic, spacetime geometry associated with event horizons produces real [observable] particles. Event horizons might be cosmological, black hole or Rindler type in Unruh radiation.

edit: for more, search "virtual particles" in these forums...and

Particle creation in an accelerating Universe?
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=590798&page=2
 
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Naty1 said:
One way is via cosmological inflation: a dynamic spacetime geometry, like cosmolgicial inflation, can turn quantum fluctuations [ that we observe in the cosmic background radiation all around us] into particles at vast horizon scales. In other words, a changing, dynamic, spacetime geometry associated with event horizons produces real [observable] particles. Event horizons might be cosmological, black hole or Rindler type in Unruh radiation.

Yea, you caught me. That's exactly where I was heading. I was wondering if the Big Bang inflation could be responsible for separating virtual particles and making them real. I was wondering if the forces that caused virtual particles to separate in the first place might be what caused inflation. And once separated, could gravity be caused by particles wanting to rejoin to something? Thanks for antisipating my questions.
 
friend said:
Yea, you caught me. That's exactly where I was heading. I was wondering if the Big Bang inflation could be responsible for separating virtual particles and making them real. I was wondering if the forces that caused virtual particles to separate in the first place might be what caused inflation. And once separated, could gravity be caused by particles wanting to rejoin to something? Thanks for antisipating my questions.

virtual particle production due to inflation is Parker radiation, Hawking/Unruh is cosmological horizons
Schwinger particle production is due to electromagnetic

The Parker production as a cause of inflation was originally described as false vacuum by A.Guth however it is a form of Parker radiation.

Here is a couple of related papers however I've never been able to find a good paper on Parker radiation specifically.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1140/epjp/i2012-12018-x#page-1

http://diposit.ub.edu/dspace/bitstream/2445/12410/1/79620.pdf

http://arxiv.org/pdf/0911.0622.pdf
 
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Just found one written by Leonard Parker.

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1205.5616v1.pdf

an older one
http://arxiv.org/abs/1106.4240

here is one on false vacuum its more recent than his original work, however he goes into a bit of inflationary model history in the article

http://www.astro.caltech.edu/~ccs/Ay21/guth_inflation.pdf

this one is his original paper
http://www.astro.rug.nl/~weygaert/t.../inflationary.universe.guth.physrevd-1981.pdf

Here is one on Hawking radiation in an FRW universe

http://arxiv.org/abs/1007.4044

One on Unruh

http://www.hep.princeton.edu/~mcdonald/accel/unruhrad.pdf

hope those help lol
 
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