How do virtual particles mediate?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of virtual particles and their role in mediating forces, particularly in the context of magnetic fields and interactions between charged particles like electrons and protons. Participants explore the implications of virtual particles on the understanding of fields and interactions in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that forces are mediated by virtual particles, questioning how magnets interact without a clear mechanism.
  • Another participant challenges the notion that virtual particles "move," asserting that they simply "are" and do not obey equations of motion.
  • There is a claim that virtual particles do not eliminate the concept of fields, but rather serve as a calculational tool for handling them.
  • A participant expresses frustration over the ambiguity of how particles are aware of each other's presence, suggesting that virtual particles may just be a conceptual trick.
  • One participant inquires whether "field information" travels at the speed of light, proposing that interactions between particles occur with a time delay consistent with this speed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the nature and role of virtual particles, with some viewing them as a useful conceptual tool while others see them as inadequate for explaining interactions. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on the topic.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of virtual particles and fields, as well as the assumptions about particle interactions and the nature of information transfer between them.

steviereal
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
As far as I know, forces are supposed to be mediated by virtual particles. Let's take the example of a magnetic field, mediated by photons. This seems to be a good idea, because it sort of eliminates the nasty concept of a field, which is just an abstract concept. This has been bothering me since childhood: how does a magnet know that there is another magnet nearby? :-)

So they are supposed to be radiating photons in all directions. Sure, magnets have little currents in them, but let's take two electrons floating in the middle of nothing (maybe alone in the universe). They are also radiating virtual photons all the time? (There is nothing to excite them, though.) After all, they have to let each other know somehow they are there. So do these photons have a specific frequency related to some property of the electron? When one sends such a virtual photon to the other, is the other instantly repelled, or does it also send another photon back and they first agree that they are electrons and that they should move away from each other? What do we mean by exchange?

How does it work between an electron and a proton? How is the virtual photon emitted by a proton any different from that of an electron?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
So they are supposed to be radiating photons in all directions.
(...)
They are also radiating virtual photons all the time?
No. By using this language you seem to think that virtual particles "move". They don't "move". They just, uhm... "are".

Virtual particles do not obey equations of motion (by definition). They don't move in the sense as normal particles do.
 
steviereal said:
This seems to be a good idea, because it sort of eliminates the nasty concept of a field, which is just an abstract concept.

It does not. Indeed, "virtual particles" are a calculational trick for handling fields.
 
Oh, okay. So we basically have no idea how the particles know about each other's presence. These virtual particles are just a trick, right? *Sigh* I should have known.
 
they are :)
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: 1 person
By the way, am I right that the "field information" travels at the speed of light? So if we move one particle, the other one that it interacts with will react a time later as if the information traveled at lightspeed? Because that would be at least something we know about fields.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
4K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
888