What Math Do I Need for SR and Classical Relativistic Field Theories?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the mathematical prerequisites for understanding special relativity (SR) and classical relativistic field theories, particularly in the context of transitioning to general relativity (GR). Participants explore the necessary mathematical tools, including tensor analysis and vector calculus, and their applications in relativistic dynamics and electromagnetic theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that tensor analysis is essential for understanding GR, while others emphasize the importance of vector calculus for classical electrodynamics.
  • One participant questions the applicability of Maxwell's equations in a relativistic context, noting that they initially describe the electromagnetic field without relativistic effects.
  • Another participant asserts that Maxwell's equations are inherently relativistic, leading to a discussion about the implications of relative motion and the Lorentz transformations.
  • There is a mention of Lagrangian densities in the context of relativistic field theories, with one participant expressing uncertainty about their derivation and relevance.
  • Some participants propose that a foundational understanding of tensors and relativity is necessary before delving into relativistic Maxwell theory.
  • References to external materials, such as lecture notes and textbooks, are shared to aid in understanding the mathematical concepts involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of Maxwell's equations and their relation to relativity, indicating a lack of consensus on whether they describe the electromagnetic field without relativistic effects. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to learning the necessary mathematics for relativistic field theories.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for a solid understanding of differential geometry and tensor calculus for GR, as well as the potential confusion surrounding the application of classical electrodynamics in a relativistic framework. There are unresolved questions about the derivation and application of Lagrangian densities in this context.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and enthusiasts of physics who are interested in the mathematical foundations of special and general relativity, as well as those looking to understand classical field theories in a relativistic context.

magicfountain
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I read basic stuff about relativity (time dilitation etc.) in a HS textbook.
I want to do some relativistic dynamics and go up to Einsteins field equations (GR). For GR I will definitely need tensor analysis. However, what is the math involved in the SR that I need to get to classic relativistic field theories (Electromagnetic),which I want to do before doing GR?
 
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magicfountain said:
I want to do some relativistic dynamics and go up to Einsteins field equations (GR). For GR I will definitely need tensor analysis.

However, what is the math involved in the SR that I need to get to classic relativistic field theories (Electromagnetic),which I want to do before doing GR?

For GR you need some basis of differential geometry.
For the second question, I think you refer to Classical Electrodynamics? For it you need vector calculus, and to know something about tensor if you use covariant formalism.

Is this what you were asking?
 
As far as my understanding goes, maxwells basic equations describe the EM field without relativistic effects (I have done them already, as well es basic vec. calc. (div. grad. rot.)). I just had a look at some lecture notes from the internet and it had a lot of tensors for relativistic maxwelltheory. not really following it (because I know few about tensors in relativity) i saw langrange densities coming up while going through it.
I know the how to derive lagrange densities in mechanics (they can be nonrelativistic) and thought, there was a way to have maxwell field theory in lagrangian form, but this probably corresponds to relativistic forms only. (is this correct?)
should I start doing tensors and relativity first to get to relativistic maxwelltheory?
 
magicfountain said:
As far as my understanding goes, maxwells basic equations describe the EM field without relativistic effects.

Maxwell's equations are inherently relativistic. So why do you say this?

Of course one can take a non-rel. limit, giving "Galilean Maxwell theories", but that's a different cookie.
 
haushofer said:
Maxwell's equations are inherently relativistic. So why do you say this?

Ok, if you mean relative motion (B-field for moving etc.).
Maybe it was wrong, that with relativistic I referred to time dilatation and doing Lorentztransformations.
 
magicfountain said:
should I start doing tensors and relativity first to get to relativistic maxwelltheory?

Maxwell theory is relativistic( in the sense of special relativity): it predicts for example that the speed of an electromagnetic wave is c.
What are you looking for, I think it is electrodynamics. You can study the motion of particles in electromagnetic field, and for this you need special relativity and tensors.
 
http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0311011/
I've just found this notes, try to look at them, even if they are more mathematic than physics.
The standard reference for the subject is a book called Classical Electrodynamics by Jackson.
 
alialice said:
I think it is electrodynamics. You can study the motion of particles in electromagnetic field.
Thanks, this helps!
So is this also what the Langrangians are for?
 
magicfountain said:
Ok, if you mean relative motion (B-field for moving etc.).
Maybe it was wrong, that with relativistic I referred to time dilatation and doing Lorentztransformations.
Maxwell's equations relate to a single inertial frame. The change with SR was that the equations are valid for any inertial frame - this doesn't affect the equations at all.
 
  • #10
magicfountain said:
Thanks, this helps!
So is this also what the Langrangians are for?

Yes :)
 

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