What prevents mass-less gauge bosons and gravity going faster than c?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the limitations on the speed of mass-less gauge bosons and gravity, specifically why they cannot exceed the speed of light (c). Participants explore theoretical implications, the role of special relativity, and the nature of fundamental properties in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that mass-less gauge bosons and gravity cannot exceed c due to the principles of special relativity.
  • One participant questions whether adding energy to a system could propel mass-less particles faster than c, seeking to understand what limits their speed.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the speed of mass-less bosons does not depend on their energy, reiterating that special relativity dictates their speed must be c.
  • Concerns are raised about gravity's role in limiting itself to c, with suggestions that interactions with space-time curvature might impose this limit.
  • Some participants propose that the speed limit of c may be a fundamental property of the universe without a known origin, similar to other fundamental constants.
  • There is a suggestion that future discoveries could potentially challenge the established limit of c.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the reasons behind the speed limit of c. While some accept the constraints imposed by special relativity, others seek deeper explanations or question the nature of this limit, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference concepts from special and general relativity, but there are unresolved questions about the fundamental nature of the speed limit and its origins, as well as the implications of potential future discoveries.

Bararontok
Messages
296
Reaction score
0
Whether traveling at c in the form of radiation and carrying energy in the process or to exert the force propagated by force fields, the mass-less gauge bosons cannot go faster than c and even the gravitational force which is caused by the space-time curvature or hypothetically gravitons cannot go faster than c. What phenomenon is imposing this limit on the mass-less gauge bosons and gravity?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Special relativity.
Why should mass-less gauge bosons and gravity go faster than c? ;)
 
With more and more energy being added to the system propagating as radiation or force, should the extra energy not propel all of these radiation and fields faster and faster and faster unless there is something to stop it? After all, mass is what limits fermions from going faster than c, so what is imposing a limit on the mass-less particles and gravity?
 
The speed of those bosons does not depend on their energy - that is a direct consequence of special relativity.

After all, mass is what limits fermions from going faster than c, so what is imposing a limit on the mass-less particles and gravity?
Mass and the laws of relativity limit massive particles (not just fermions) to speeds below c, and the same laws force massless particles to have a speed of c.
 
But what about gravity, since it is the source of relativistic phenomenon, why is it limiting itself to c?

Is it because, in space there is no absolute vacuum because of the presence of radiation and force fields and anything traveling through space has to interact with the other objects such as the space-time curvature and even when the interaction is weak because the object is distant from the source of the force, this interaction forces the limit of c onto the object, even if it is mass-less.
 
Read an introduction about (special) relativity, please. I cannot and do not want to replace a textbook.
 
Bararontok said:
But what about gravity, since it is the source of relativistic phenomenon, why is it limiting itself to c?

While I agree with MFB, it can also be said that there is simply a maximum speed limit that changes within the universe can propagate at. This limit is the velocity c. Massless particles happen to travel at c because they are massless. To my knowledge there is no known underlying reason for there to be a maximum speed limit, we only know that there is. Although if there wasn't, things would be much different in the universe.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: 1 person
Drakkith said:
While I agree with MFB, it can also be said that there is simply a maximum speed limit that changes within the universe can propagate at. This limit is the velocity c. Massless particles happen to travel at c because they are massless. To my knowledge there is no known underlying reason for there to be a maximum speed limit, we only know that there is. Although if there wasn't, things would be much different in the universe.

Yes that is true, while I understand that the limit of c is shown to be mathematically consistent with the theories of Special and General Relativity and Lorentz Invariance and that going faster than c would violate causality, what I was looking for was not the mathematical and verbal description of the phenomenon but what causes the limit or how it originated. Perhaps, just like the other fundamental properties that the elementary particles and the curvature of space-time possess, this speed limit of c for mass-less particles does not have a cause and is simply a fundamental property that has no known origin and has existed for eternity, just like how energy cannot be created or destroyed and instead only changes form. Additionally, just like the other fundamental properties that make each elementary particle unique, the speed limit of c is just another property that simply exists. Although it may be possible that c is not really the limit if in the future a particle is discovered that can move faster than c. In conclusion these fundamental properties and physical constants are the final cause and basic building components of everything in the universe unless even more fundamental properties and phenomena are discovered. This question has been answered, thank you very much.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 95 ·
4
Replies
95
Views
7K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
5K