What should a regular physics undergraduate program consist of?

[chingcx]

Suddenly I'm curious what other uni physics students do and I am studying the physics curriculum of another local uni just now, but it seems there're a lot of differences between the two top uni here...we took a-level here so it's a 3-year program.

The core courses are: 1 year on some fundamental courses, then classical mechanics, e&m, quantum mechanics (half of Grittiths' book), thermodynamics, some math courses(ode, vector cal, linear algebra), programming, labs, any more? That's what I'm doing in my uni. And does it seem inadequate?

 

[clope023]

Suddenly I'm curious what other uni physics students do and I am studying the physics curriculum of another local uni just now, but it seems there're a lot of differences between the two top uni here...we took a-level here so it's a 3-year program.

The core courses are: 1 year on some fundamental courses, then classical mechanics, e&m, quantum mechanics (half of Grittiths' book), thermodynamics, some math courses(ode, vector cal, linear algebra), programming, labs, any more? That's what I'm doing in my uni. And does it seem inadequate?

I think that's about right, judging by what I've read, I know my school requires:

chem 1&2, calc 1-3, differential equations, phy 1&2 (freshman mechanics and E&M respectively), thermo, modern physics 1&2, classical mech, E&M, QM, than a math course for theoretical physics; everything else is electives; I have seen schools like UCF and FSU that have combined physics degree programs like physics/comp-sci, physics/bio, physics/philosophy, physics/law, physics/business; and other combinations with subsets of physics like lasers and astronomy, a lot of different programs out there apparently.

 

[nicksauce]

Well this is what it's like at my school:

Year 1: (Sophomore)
Newtonian mechanics, Lab Course (both semesters), Signal processing, Intro to thermodynamics + waves, Cal3, ODEs, Linear
Year 2:
Electronics, E&M, Advanced Calculus, Classical Mechanics, EM Waves, Lab Course, Thermodynamics+Statmech
Year 3:
Optics, Modern Physics, Lab in modern physics, Quantum, Undergrad reserach project

My main complaint about this particular program is that quantum should be introduced in the second year.

 

[tbradshaw]

here was my undergrad,
required - intro mechanics, intro E&M, intro modern, thermodynamics,
1-year mechanics, 1-year E&M(entire Griffiths book), 1-year QM, Sr Physics Lab
Calculus 1-3, Diffy Eq 1 &2, Numerical Analysis
Intro Quantitative Chem and Intro Qualitative Chem
In addition to the required courses you had to take 5 more higher level math or science classes as technical electives, linear algebra was typically the first choice here

 

[ekrim]

At my school:

Univ. Physics I: mechanics
Univ. Physics II: waves, optics, thermal/fluid + lab
Univ. Physics III: e&m, intro to quantum + lab

Thermal physics
Classical mechanics I
Classical Mechanics II
E&M I
E&M II
modern physics + lab
QM I
senior lab

Recommended math courses: Calc I-III, diff eq, linear algebra, analysis, etc.

 

[robphy]

It might be helpful to provide textbook-titles that may be used for these courses at your institutions.

 

[Asphodel]

Take a gander at the physics GRE topic list and distribution.

 

[chingcx]

It might be helpful to provide textbook-titles that may be used for these courses at your institutions.

After reading the replies, it really seems that mine is merely enough. 1-sem classical mech, 1-sem classical em and 1-sem QM only. Most others are spending 2 sems on these topics. (although there are "sequels" to those courses, they're just not in the core.) In fact I've no idea what direction I'll go when I grad next year...my results are just so-so, some As some Bs. no particular strength (or weakness~). no particular interest.

Textbooks...I can't remember much...Classical mech: analytical mechanics (sth like that, with a man riding on a bicycle on the cover) e&m, qm: griifiths (half only), (thermo: forgot the name) and halliday one in first year.

 

[Monocles]

My school:

Calc 1 thru 3 (Linear Algebra is crammed into Calc 2)
Diff Eq.
Intro Computing
General Chem. w/ Lab
Intro Physics 1 and 2 w/ Lab
Modern Physics
Classical Mech. 1
Electromagnetism 1 & 2
Quantum Mech. 1 & 2
Thermodynamics
Statistical Mechanics
Advanced Lab 1

Thats all the the required classes for Physics majors, the only other Physics requirement is another physics lab science, which would either be Optics + Optics Lab, Electronics, or Advanced Lab 2 (there might be others but I'm fairly certain those are the only other lab sciences offered). There are required technical electives too of course, but those don't necessarily have to be physics electives.

 

[robphy]

math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Administrivia/booklist.html

 

[BryanP]

Here's the physics curriculum for u-grads at my school: http://physics.berkeley.edu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=180&Itemid=422

has a breakdown chart for the standard physics major

reading list for each class can be found here: http://physics.berkeley.edu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=134&Itemid=258

 

[Andy Resnick]

Since the thread title asks "what SHOULD a regular undergrad program consist of", I feel compelled to state that the current canonical physics curriculum (of which several examples have been given) only addresses the needs of students interested in persuing physics at a graduate level. That is, the current physics curriculum is narrowly targeted to those few of us committed to persuing an advanced degree in physics. As a consequence, increasing numbers of otherwise well-educated individuals know less and less physics, to the ultimate detriment of the physics community, who relies on taxpayer-funded generosity to continue to work and eat.

I think the canonical physics curriculum is overdue for a through overhaul, with the goal of producing graduates that can go out into the world and *use their undergraduate physics degree to do physics*.

This means producing graduates that can, for example, operate and maintain advanced industrial and scientific equipment. Or effectively integrate into an engineering team. Or provide guidance for an industrial R&D effort. Or any number of things that we currently claim a BS in physics is good for, but rarely ever occurs in practice.

That means giving up a lot of the canonical material to make room for new things like "device physics", "semiconductor physics", "medical physics", etc. Maybe it means that it's not possible anymore to have a 'physics' major, just as there's no such thing as majoring in 'engineering'.

Food for thought...

 

[dx]

This is the program at my school: (only listing the options I have chosen, or am planning to chose)

Year 1

1. Analysis I
2. Maths Foundations (sets, number systems, counting, modular arithmetic, groups)
3. Ordinary Differential Equations
4. Relativity
5. Physics Foundations (dimensional analysis, SHM, waves)
6. Mechanics A
7. Electricity and Magnetism
8. Linear Algebra
9. Analysis II
10. Waves
11. Probability A
12. Probability B
13. Thermal Physics I
14. Quantum Phenomena

Year 2

1. Vector Analysis
2. Analysis III
3. Advanced Linear Algebra
4. Geometry
5. Quantum Mechanics
6. Lagrangian and Hamiltonian Mechanics
7. Metric Spaces
8. Differentiation
9. Algebra II : Groups and Rings
10. Partial Differential Equations
11. Mathematical Methods for Physicists II
12. Electromagnetic Theory and Optics
13. Physics of Fluids
14. Thermal Physics II
15. Variational Principles
16. Mathematical Biology

Year 3

1. Measure Theory
2. Fluid Dynamics
3. Functional Analysis
4. Cosmology
5. Quantum Physics of Atoms
6. Electrodynamics
7. Nonlinearity
8. Statistical Physics
9. Quantum Physics of Solids
10. Advanced Electrodynamics
11. Complex Analysis
12. Differential Geometry
13. Theory of Partial Differential Equations
14. Continuum Mechanics
15. Condensed Matter Physics
16. Particle Physics
17. Kinetic Theory
18. Astrophysics
19. Scattering and Spectroscopy

Year 4

1. Relativity and Electrodynamics
2. The Standard Model
3. Functional Analysis II
4. Relativistic Quantum Mechanics
5. Gauge Theories
6. General Relativity
7. Dynamical Systems
8. Structure and Dynamics of Solids
9. Solar Magnetohydrodynamics
10. Statistical Mechanics of Complex Systems
11. High Energy Astrophysics

EDIT : Forgot to mention that this is a maths + physics course.

 

[nicksauce]

Can you explain how exactly you plan to take 19 classes in a year??

 

[Vid]

Some places are beginning to do just that. I'm not a physics major, but here at LSU physics majors can do a concentration in Medical Physics as an undergrad. There's even a minor in nuclear physics that consists almost entirely of medical physics courses. All physics majors are also required to take "Instrumentation Electronics for Scientists," as well as a numerical analysis class from the physics department. It's a year long class, but only the first semester is required. There's also a physics with second discipline option where 24 hours of your major goes to another field like some branch of engineering or comp sci.

I think physics departments are aware of the problems with just a BS in physics, and some seem willing to fix that problem.

 

[tmc]

I've taken 16 and others here have as well (don't do it).
With 19 courses, I assume he just took a bunch during summer, maybe even a full summer semester

 

[nicksauce]

That's madness.

 

[dx]

Can you explain how exactly you plan to take 19 classes in a year??

By working hard :). But no, don't take the number too seriously, I don't really know if I'll be taking all of the ones I listed. There were too many options to list, so I just listed the ones that looked interesting, or essential.

 

[mgiddy911]

This is the program at my school: (only listing the options I have chosen, or am planning to chose)

Year 1

1. Analysis I
2. Maths Foundations (sets, number systems, counting, modular arithmetic, groups)
3. Ordinary Differential Equations
4. Relativity
5. Physics Foundations (dimensional analysis, SHM, waves)
6. Mechanics A
7. Electricity and Magnetism
8. Linear Algebra
9. Analysis II
10. Waves
11. Probability A
12. Probability B
13. Thermal Physics I
14. Quantum Phenomena

Year 2

1. Vector Analysis
2. Analysis III
3. Advanced Linear Algebra
4. Geometry
5. Quantum Mechanics
6. Lagrangian and Hamiltonian Mechanics
7. Metric Spaces
8. Differentiation
9. Algebra II : Groups and Rings
10. Partial Differential Equations
11. Mathematical Methods for Physicists II
12. Electromagnetic Theory and Optics
13. Physics of Fluids
14. Thermal Physics II
15. Variational Principles
16. Mathematical Biology

Year 3

1. Measure Theory
2. Fluid Dynamics
3. Functional Analysis
4. Cosmology
5. Quantum Physics of Atoms
6. Electrodynamics
7. Nonlinearity
8. Statistical Physics
9. Quantum Physics of Solids
10. Advanced Electrodynamics
11. Complex Analysis
12. Differential Geometry
13. Theory of Partial Differential Equations
14. Continuum Mechanics
15. Condensed Matter Physics
16. Particle Physics
17. Kinetic Theory
18. Astrophysics
19. Scattering and Spectroscopy

Year 4

1. Relativity and Electrodynamics
2. The Standard Model
3. Functional Analysis II
4. Relativistic Quantum Mechanics
5. Gauge Theories
6. General Relativity
7. Dynamical Systems
8. Structure and Dynamics of Solids
9. Solar Magnetohydrodynamics
10. Statistical Mechanics of Complex Systems
11. High Energy Astrophysics

EDIT : Forgot to mention that this is a maths + physics course.

Your Year 3 looks like one hell of a year even if you are doing some of that as summer classes. Maybe I'm naive but I didn't know schools offered any upper division classes liek that over the summer. But really I could never finish a year like that

 

[robphy]

Can you explain how exactly you plan to take 19 classes in a year??

By working hard :). But no, don't take the number too seriously, I don't really know if I'll be taking all of the ones I listed. There were too many options to list, so I just listed the ones that looked interesting, or essential.

Is this the program from http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/physics/undergraduate_study/physics_courses/ ?
I can't tell if the terms are 14-week "semesters", 10-week "quarters", etc...

Certainly, this academic program is different from that of a typical undergraduate program from an American college or university.

 

[BryanP]

way different.

 

[dx]

Is this the program from http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/physics/undergraduate_study/physics_courses/ ?
I can't tell if the terms are 14-week "semesters", 10-week "quarters", etc...

That's the university, but the program in the link is the physics program. The one I listed is the maths + physics one. And its 10-week terms.

 

[dx]

Your Year 3 looks like one hell of a year even if you are doing some of that as summer classes. Maybe I'm naive but I didn't know schools offered any upper division classes liek that over the summer. But really I could never finish a year like that

I seem to have caused a lot of misunderstanding . Those are not all core courses. Many are options.

 

[Ed Aboud]

Well I am planning to do theoretical physics next year in UCD in Ireland,

https://sisweb.ucd.ie/usis/w_sm_web...ode=200700&p_cao_code=DN031&p_major_code=PPS1

Thats the course

 

[mgiddy911]

that programme is more likened to a BS +MS in the US right, it seems to cover far more than the standard U.S BS. degree.

I recall there being a fun little pub right near the dorms at UCD. I had a good time while staying there.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Basically I had (each course is one term, i.e. 4 months):

-Two Intro to phys
-Two E&M's
-Two Classical Mechanics
-Four Quantums (Most people only do 3)
-Two Mathematical Physics Classes
-Three Computational Physics Courses
-Optics
-Condensed Matter
-Thermodynamics
-Statistical Mechanics
-Three Calc Courses
-Two Linear Algebra Courses
-An ODE Course
-4th Year Research Project
-A couple AMATH courses (complex analysis and differential geometry)
-A bunch of CS courses (since I was a computational physics major)
-A bunch of random courses (psych 101, philosophy 100, a couple bio courses, etc.) that I did online during my work terms.
-In my first year I also took chem and Earth sciences