What Tension Must Ellen Maintain to Steady the Piano Descent?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving a 500 kg piano being lowered by a crane, with two individuals, Bob and Ellen, using ropes to steady it. The problem focuses on determining the tension Ellen must maintain in her rope to ensure the piano descends at a steady speed, indicating a state of equilibrium.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the components of the forces exerted by Bob and Ellen, considering their angles and the need for equilibrium in both horizontal and vertical directions. There is a focus on understanding why only the horizontal components are necessary for solving the problem.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on the necessity of considering the total forces acting on the piano, including the crane's vertical force. There is an ongoing exploration of the calculations related to Ellen's tension, with some uncertainty expressed about the role of vertical components in the overall analysis.

Contextual Notes

The problem assumes that the crane's force acts vertically and that the piano is descending at a steady speed, implying no net force or acceleration. There is a lack of consensus on the necessity of vertical components in the calculations.

klm
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a 500 kg piano is being lowered into position by a crane while 2 people steady it with ropes pulling to the sides. bob's rope pulls to the left, 15 degrees below horizontal, with 500 N of tension. ellen's rope pulls toward the right, 25 degrees below horizontal. what tension must ellen maintain in her rope to keep the piano descending at a steady speed?

ok so what i understood from this, is that bobs rope is in the 3rd quad and ellens is in the 4th. and i guess there is a main cable from the crane going straight up. and then since is says it is descending at a steady speed that means that there is no net force or acceleration. so i figured i should get the components of bob's rope, Bx=-482 By=-129.
and the i thought that
Fnetx = Bx+Ex =0
-482 + Ecos25 =0
Ecos25=482
E=532
Fnety = By+Ey=o
-129+Esin25=0
E=306
and then i found the magnitude of the two components of E and 614 N. but that is incorrect. so i don't know what to do anymore!
 
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It's the total force on the piano that must be zero, including the force of the crane (not just Bob and Ellen's force). But you know (or can assume) that the crane is just pulling vertically. So the only horizontal forces are exerted by Bob & Ellen, so the horizontal components of their forces must add to zero. And that's all you need to find Ellen's force. (You've already done the calculation.)
 
so is ellen's force 532 N? b/c i am not understand why you do not need bob and ellens vertical component force?
 
klm said:
so is ellen's force 532 N? b/c i am not understand why you do not need bob and ellens vertical component force?
That's correct. Since they are just steadying the crane, their total horizontal force must be zero. That's all you need to solve the problem. Their vertical force isn't zero, because the crane add its force to the piano. (The crane pulls vertically.)
 
thank you doc al
 

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