What ya' think of Lady Gaga in meat?

[lisab]

Strange topic, strange thread.

 

[nismaratwork]

Strange topic, strange thread.

Truly... you know, as a woman I'd like to hear your views on this one. I have my own, but I'm still a guy, which means that my view is somewhat less relevant given the gender which is most involved. Maybe Vertices is right and I have a lot of personal growth to attain?

 

[cristo]

Gaga claims that she doesn't lip-synch and never will.

It's pretty obvious that she isn't lip-synching there (if you listen to the 30 or so seconds before her dropping the mic, it's definitely live). As Greg says, most pop stars have backing track and, in essence, it's nothing more than having backing singers. Besides, the show is not only about the music, it's about the performance. Sure, if she was standing on the spot singing and needed a backing track then it would be pretty bad, but she's running around, jumping on things, dancing, and so it's pretty impossible to sing at the same time. Hence the backing track, and the need for having lines laid down on the backing track to fill in gaps.

I don't see what the issue is -- it's quite obvious that she has some talent!

 

[nismaratwork]

It's pretty obvious that she isn't lip-synching there (if you listen to the 30 or so seconds before her dropping the mic, it's definitely live). As Greg says, most pop stars have backing track and, in essence, it's nothing more than having backing singers. Besides, the show is not only about the music, it's about the performance. Sure, if she was standing on the spot singing and needed a backing track then it would be pretty bad, but she's running around, jumping on things, dancing, and so it's pretty impossible to sing at the same time. Hence the backing track, and the need for having lines laid down on the backing track to fill in gaps.

I don't see what the issue is -- it's quite obvious that she has some talent!

How DARE you drag this thread back to a reasonable and music-related topic?!

Oh, and yeah, take Pink for instance... she has a great voice, but synchs sometimes when she's doing (literally) acrobatics. I don't see the problem.

 

[jackmell]

Jackmell: Yeah, we get it, you're a caveman, but fortunately everyone else isn't.

It's not (very) unusual to eat sushi off a young woman's body. She's in the middle of the table, naked, with sushi arranged attractively all over her body, not face and all the people sit around and help themselves. So, Gaga, table, lots of makeup though, sorry girl, sushi, and some nice cuts of kobe beef. I hear it's quite tasty raw.

 

[Cyrus]

It's not (very) unusual to eat sushi off a young woman's body. She's in the middle of the table, naked, with sushi arranged attractively all over her body, not face and all the people sit around and help themselves. So, Gaga, table, lots of makeup though, sorry girl, sushi, and some nice cuts of kobe beef. I hear it's quite tasty raw.

I was about to go to one of those things where you eat sushi off a naked woman last year, but I had a mid term exam for a graduate class...woe is me. But thanks for reminding me about this, I got to find out if/when they have one again!

 

[nismaratwork]

It's not (very) unusual to eat sushi off a young woman's body. She's in the middle of the table, naked, with sushi arranged attractively all over her body, not face and all the people sit around and help themselves. So, Gaga, table, lots of makeup though, sorry girl, sushi, and some nice cuts of kobe beef. I hear it's quite tasty raw.

Kobe beef is delicious raw, sliced VERY thin, and generally not at room temp being worn as a suit. I have to say, I'd rather take my sushi and naked women in that order, and not together as a unit. Have a nice meal, and then a date... the other is to me, just a bit creepy.

 

[DaveC426913]

I shouldn't have to tell you why porn is degrading to women - its obvious. When you have a situation where a man (or a group of men) 'enter' a woman's most personal and private space, for other men to ogle and drool at, this is clearly an example of degradation. The fact porn stars make tonnes of money doesn't make it any less degrading.

1] You have no business deciding for soemone else whether they are degrading themselves. That is their call and theirs alone.

2] The definition of sexism is to group people by their gender and make generalizations about what that group thinks or does. ("Women are emotionally clingy." See?) To suggest that "all women are degraded" is to corral them into one group and generalize them. That's just as sexist as claimnig they're all clingy.

To avoid sexism (or any kind of ism), you must treat individuals as individuals. The only way to know how an individual feels is to must ask them.



That stripper on that stage can no more represent "all women" than I can represent "all white people" by writing a skinhead diatribe.

 

[vertices]

1] You have no business deciding for soemone else whether they are degrading themselves. That is their call and theirs alone.

2] The definition of sexism is to group people by their gender and make generalizations about what that group thinks or does. ("Women are emotionally clingy." See?) To suggest that "all women are degraded" is to corral them into one group and generalize them. That's just as sexist as claimnig they're all clingy.

To avoid sexism (or any kind of ism), you must treat individuals as individuals. The only way to know how an individual feels is to must ask them.

Women (or people in general) should be free to do whatever they like as long their actions don't harm others (or themselves). But feminists would argue that a statistically signficant number of porn stars do go on to have serious mental health issues, and more significantly, their work reinforces ridiculous, socially constructed notions such as those espoused by jackmell (which basically serves as an egregious justification for rape).

 

[Proton Soup]

Now you're just trying to go after her. Nearly every pop singer will have an accompanying back track to help fill the sound. It's all about the performance. Take her for what she is. She's no Whitney or Mariah, but she has some talent.

she sings better than me, i'll give her that

 

[nucleargirl]

man! people really do get worked up about this!
ok here's what she said (just watched the Ellen show interviewng her) and it is like this:
people who don't fight for their rights are eventually only going to have as much rights as the meat on their bones. so she's trying to tell us we should stand up for what we believe in.
its probs to do with some gay people not being allowed in the army law that she's trying to get banned?

 

[Proton Soup]

even her "art" is boring.

but it serves the purpose. it gets her on Ellen to explain it, gets free publicity, and gets bank.

best of all, it plays well to teenyboppers, just like all the menstruation imagery.

 

[nismaratwork]

even her "art" is boring.

but it serves the purpose. it gets her on Ellen to explain it, gets free publicity, and gets bank.

best of all, it plays well to teenyboppers, just like all the menstruation imagery.

Naturally, she's her own product, and she has to sell it, and not only on Ellen; this has been on the news cycling over 24 hours. In the absence of a new album, what else is there, right? Her new thing was a very odd pair of... claw... shoes she wore: we're already on to the next "gaga".

DaveC: Well said, but Vertices seems a bit too convinced of his own moral rectitude to allow women to decide for themselves what is or is not degrading. Note that in his posts, he doesn't seem to find men having sex on camera degrading to all men, for the same reason that it is (to him) for women, or by representing men as "carnal beasts"... and pizza delivery men.

Vertices: In your own very PC way, you're pigeonholing women by making these broad statements about what degrades them or not. I also may not agree with Jackmell... in fact I'm pretty sure that I don't... but he seems to be making a dispassionate argument about human nature, not the "she was asking for it" argument. If I'm wrong, I'm sure he'll correct me, but based on his other posts I'd be shocked if he were saying anything other than "men are horny, women use that to their advantage." I think that's still ignoring the male end of the same spectrum as well as the disadvantageous nature of that arrangement. That being said, it's far from saying that women are objects to be "taken".

YOU on the other hand, should recognize that there is a vast difference between feminism, and the simple desire that all people be treated fairly and with respect. Feminists, in the literal "radical feminist" sense no more speak for women than PETA currently speaks for animal rights supporters. I LOVE animals, but PETA is insane...

Personally, I was raised such that I find most pornography, all stripping and prostitution depressing, and not erotic. I think of the degradation of self that led the women and men involved (and buddy, you're ignoring gay male porn in addition to straight men in porn) to cross strong cultural norms and use their bodies as a means of currency. If you show me someone in that business who isn't, for lack of a better term, f***ed up, I'll be into that one person... haven't seen that person though.

You're focused on an image you believe is projected on an entire gender, rather than the plight of an individual. In essence, you're inventing victims where none exist, and ignoring the ones that DO exist; relish the irony.

 

[nismaratwork]

she sings better than me, i'll give her that

So you're not Susan Boyle then? I'm crushed sir!

 

[leroyjenkens]

Perhaps this will put things in more perspective:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3aQRzAOy7Y

I wish I was powerful, influential and could captivate millions of people around the universe by doing that.

 

[DaveC426913]

Women (or people in general) should be free to do whatever they like as long their actions don't harm others (or themselves). But feminists would argue that a statistically signficant number of porn stars do go on to have serious mental health issues, and more significantly, their work reinforces ridiculous, socially constructed notions such as those espoused by jackmell (which basically serves as an egregious justification for rape).

Yes. Excellent points. This is a much more rational stance than the usual "it degrades all women" argument.

 

[nismaratwork]

Yes. Excellent points. This is a much more rational stance than the usual "it degrades all women" argument.

Gee, and here I thought I was the one who brought up the mental health issues, instead of painting women as so easily degradable. Really, this just shows that we abuse the stupid and the damaged... which is hardly news. In essence, we continue to underestimate mental illness and the effects of trauma in our insistence to assign everything as "personal responsibility".