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B What you think of Scale Symmetry?

  1. Aug 27, 2016 #1
    After 3 hours of google search. I found out scale symmetry is related to dimensional transmutation that can replace the supersymmetric particles that can solve the Hierarchy Problem of the Higgs (this is the hottest thing in LHC and physics right now). Scale symmetry is the key to understand all this. There is almost zero hit about scale symmetry in Physicsforums so let me share the details and the questions. The following article is directly connected to the Sci-Am article on Hierarchy problem and dimensional transmutation https://www.quantamagazine.org/20140818-at-multiverse-impasse-a-new-theory-of-scale/


    "This little-explored idea, known as scale symmetry, constitutes a radical departure from long-standing assumptions about how elementary particles acquire their properties. But it has recently emerged as a common theme of numerous talks and papers by respected particle physicists. With their field stuck at a nasty impasse, the researchers have returned to the master equations that describe the known particles and their interactions, and are asking: What happens when you erase the terms in the equations having to do with mass and length?

    Nature, at the deepest level, may not differentiate between scales. With scale symmetry, physicists start with a basic equation that sets forth a massless collection of particles, each a unique confluence of characteristics such as whether it is matter or antimatter and has positive or negative electric charge. As these particles attract and repel one another and the effects of their interactions cascade like dominoes through the calculations, scale symmetry “breaks,” and masses and lengths spontaneously arise.

    ..... (continue quoting)

    The scale symmetry approach traces back to 1995, when http://theory.fnal.gov/people/bardeen/wbardeen.html?__hstc=13887208.fd3fbbf9f7855dfcee679370f812aa59.1472103875706.1472103875707.1472288820401.3&__hssc=13887208.2.1472288820401&__hsfp=559246593 [Broken], a theoretical physicist at Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory in Batavia, Ill., showed that the mass of the Higgs boson and the other Standard Model particles could be calculated as consequences of spontaneous scale-symmetry breaking."

    What do you make of it? If scale symmetry and dimensional transmutation is unlikely.. then the solution to the Hiearchy Problem with missing supersymmetric particles may be Multiverse which is extremely excess baggage.. so scale symmetry may be the Occam Razor's.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2017
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 1, 2016 #2
    Thanks for the thread! This is an automated courtesy bump. Sorry you aren't generating responses at the moment. Do you have any further information, come to any new conclusions or is it possible to reword the post? The more details the better.
  4. Sep 4, 2016 #3
    In http://arxiv.org/pdf/hep-ph/0207124v1.pdf, Edward Witten stated:

    "We can hope for much more beyond the Higgs. Supersymmetric particles should be
    in reach of the LHC – and maybe of Fermilab – since the supersymmetric approach to the
    hierarchy problem does not make sense if they are too heavy."

    There is huge possibility there is no supersymmetric particles because the not too heavy sector is already excluded by the LHC searches. This is also for the extra dimensions. So with two possibilities for the solution of the Hiearachy Problem very high probably excluded. We have Multiverse and Scale Symmetry options. Multiverse is excess baggage. So actually the only two real possibilities left are scale symmetry or intelligent design. If you don't like intelligent design, then Scale Symmetry is the only real possibities. Even one of the world's greatest mathematician Peter Woit agreed. So can't anyone talk about Scale Symmetry? Or secretly do you physicists are really subconsciously into Intelligent Design now as the solution to the Hiearchy Problem?
  5. May 14, 2017 #4
    Here's an interesting article on scale symmetry and gravity, or more specifically "agravity." I would welcome any thoughts you have on it. As an aside, the paper also talks about the weak force and QCD couplings, among others, so very far ranging indeed.

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