What's wrong with this math: A lot of thrust and almost no fuel?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of achieving significant thrust with minimal fuel consumption using high-pressure gas ejection, specifically in the context of lifting a human or lightweight craft. Participants explore the implications of pressure, nozzle size, and mass flow rate in this scenario.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that a force of 1500 N and a velocity of 200 m/s could be achieved with a mass flow rate of 0.0007 kg/s using a pressure of 15 MPa.
  • Concerns are raised about the practicality of using a 1 cm² nozzle at 15.1 MPa pressure.
  • Questions are posed regarding the calculation of effective velocity when releasing gas from a high-pressure reservoir without combustion.
  • Another participant points out that the initial assumptions may be flawed as the tool used for calculations assumes combustion rather than simply releasing gas from a reservoir.
  • There is confusion about why the mass loss rate appears to be negative when increasing pressure.
  • The original poster expresses uncertainty about the calculations and suggests that a polynomial approach might yield better results.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants appear to have differing views on the assumptions made regarding the calculations, particularly concerning the role of combustion versus high-pressure gas ejection. The discussion remains unresolved as participants have not reached a consensus.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings of the assumptions behind the calculations, particularly regarding the nature of the gas ejection process and the implications of pressure on mass flow rate.

gggnano
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TL;DR
Using basic calculator it seems as if a rocket can produce a lot of thrust and use little fuel if you increase pressure within practically possible range:10-20MPA?
ccv.png
So according to this if you need a force that can lift a human and even an extremely ultra-light craft (1500 N) and have a velocity of 200 m/s you can eject extremely small amount of fuel through the nozzle: 0.0007 or less kg per second for as long as you're using 15 MPa pressure which is doable and even storage cylinders on alibaba use it. Another calculator shows that hydrogen stored at the same pressure will have just 18.5 kg weight per cubic meter? So this gives over 7 hours flight time with 720km/h??

Several things I don't understand: is 1cm^2 nozzle with 15.1 Mpa pressure possible? How is the effective velocity calculated especially if you aren't combusting but just open cylinder to release pressure? Why is the mass loss rate negative if you increase pressure? I should've solved this as a polynomial calculation since the calculator gives odd values unless you reload. Thank you.
 
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The tool is assuming combustion, not a high pressure reservoir so your assumptions about what things mean is off.
 
^ Yeah...that's what I was suspecting...
 
[A trolling follow-up post by the OP has been deleted, and this thread will now be closed]
 
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