When is the norm of the sum of 2 vectors=sum of norms

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions under which the equality |x+y|=|x|+|y| holds for arbitrary non-zero vectors x and y in R^n. Participants are exploring the implications of the triangle inequality and the properties of vector norms and dot products.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are examining the conditions for equality in the triangle inequality, with some attempting to derive conditions involving the dot product. Questions arise regarding the implications of linear dependence and the angle between vectors.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of the problem, with participants offering different perspectives on the conditions for equality. Some guidance has been provided regarding the relationship between the dot product and the angle between vectors, but confusion remains about the implications of linear dependence as stated in the book.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem explicitly states that the answer is not related to linear dependence, which adds complexity to their reasoning and attempts to understand the conditions for equality.

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Homework Statement


When is |x+y|=|x|+|y| for arbitrary non-zero vectors x,y∈Rn ie, when does equality hold for the well known inequality |x+y|≤|x|+|y|

Homework Equations


|x|2=<x,x>=Σixi2
|x+y|≤|x|+|y|

The Attempt at a Solution


squaring both sides of the inequality we have
(|x+y|)2≤|x|2+|y|2+2|x||y|,
but (|x+y|)2=∑i(xi+yi)2=∑ixi2+∑iyi2+2∑ixiyi, then, by definition of norm we can cancel out all terms in the inequality but
2∑ixiyi=<x,y>≤2|x||y| so we see that equality can only hold when both sides of this inequality are equal, therefore we square both sides
<x,y>2=|x|2|y|2, by definition this expands to ∑ixiyi⋅∑ixiyi=
i(xiyi)2+∑i≠jxixjyiyj
but ∑i(xiyi)2=|x|2|y|2
so our condition for equality of |x+y|=|x|+|y| simplifies to ∑i≠jxixjyiyj=0 or
i≠jxixjyiyj=0
this is the answer I arrived at, however I don't feel confident in it for some reason. I found other solutions online for the problem in this exact book that state "when x and y are linearly dependent", however in the newest edition of the book, which I have, the problem actually states : "hint: the answer is not 'they are linearly dependent.'"

Edit: I've already found some errors in my work, including the fact that I did not expand (|x||y|)^2 properly
 
Last edited:
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my ammended solution is ∑i≠jxiyj-xjyi=0
 
cpsinkule said:
my ammended solution is ∑i≠jxiyj-xjyi=0

You are really squaring too much here and drawing wrong conclusions. Think about the dot product. You should get just x.y=|x||y| which you had about halfway through. Then remember that the dot product of two vectors is ##|x||y|cos(\theta)## where ##\theta## is the angle between the two vectors. So?
 
Last edited:
Dick said:
You are really squaring too much here and drawing wrong conclusions. Think about the dot product. You should get just x.y=|x||y| which you had about halfway through. Then remember that the dot product of two vectors is ##|x||y|cos(\theta)## where ##\theta## is the angle between the two vectors. So?
i see that, however the book explicitly states "the answer is NOT that they are linearly dependent" aka θ=0 which is why I am so confused, the book is "Calculus on Manifolds" by Spivak if you were wondering.
 
cpsinkule said:
i see that, however the book explicitly states "the answer is NOT that they are linearly dependent" aka θ=0 which is why I am so confused, the book is "Calculus on Manifolds" by Spivak if you were wondering.
"Linearly dependent" doesn't necessarily mean that θ=0, as you said. If the angle between two vectors were 180°, so that they point in opposite directions, the vectors would be linearly dependent, but it does not follow automatically that |x + y| = |x| + |y|.
 

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