Where are the missing de-broglie waves?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of de Broglie waves, particularly in the context of moving particles and their wave properties as influenced by their motion relative to different reference frames, such as a planet or a moving train. Participants explore the implications of these waves in quantum mechanics and their observability.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that particles of different masses moving together in a planetary context should produce observable de Broglie waves, questioning the reference frame of the observer.
  • Another participant asserts that de Broglie waves do not exist in real spacetime and are instead vectors in Hilbert space, indicating a need for a deeper understanding of quantum mechanics.
  • There is a repeated emphasis on the idea that the "waves" in quantum mechanics are not real physical waves but rather exist in configuration space, which cannot be directly detected.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the existence of de Broglie waves for moving masses, indicating a misunderstanding of the terminology and concepts used in quantum mechanics.
  • One participant raises a scenario involving a moving train, questioning why de Broglie wavelengths of particles inside the train do not appear to be detectable relative to the train's motion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature and existence of de Broglie waves, with some asserting their non-existence in real spacetime while others question the implications of this perspective. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the observability of these waves in different reference frames.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the understanding of the terms used, particularly regarding the distinction between real physical waves and abstract representations in quantum mechanics. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of de Broglie waves and their implications in different contexts.

AlienUFO
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Imagine that different of massed particles of a planet moving together by orbitation and rotation, shouldn't they produce different wave that could be orservable? Instead of refer to our reference observer (in lab)?

I mean, when we say 'a mass with velocity v and mas m will produce wavelength lamda' when the mass we study already has its wave respect to planet's movement?
 
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The de Broglie waves you are thinking about do not exist in real spacetime. Nor is it a wave that propagates through spacetime like sound waves or electromagnetic waves.

The waves they refer to are vectors in Hilbert space. To fully understand this, you need to study quantum mechanics.
 
Last edited:
masudr said:
The de Broglie waves you are thinking about do not exist in real spacetime.

This is weird, I though every mass that are moving will produce wave.
 
AlienUFO said:
This is weird, I though every mass that are moving will produce wave.

You need to be VERY careful in interpretating words and phrases from any area of science. The word may be identical to what you have been using, but the MEANING may be very different.

In QM, these "waves" are NOT real physical waves that you are familiar with. As has been said, at some point, these are waves in what is known as "configuration space", and they are not something you detect directly.

Zz.
 
ZapperZ said:
In QM, these "waves" are NOT real physical waves that you are familiar with. As has been said, at some point, these are waves in what is known as "configuration space", and they are not something you detect directly.

Zz.

What I mean here is de-broglie wave.

What I want to ask is something like this: 'Inside a moving train there are different kind of masses particle. Judging their movement relative to train, they should have different de-broglie wavelength, which should be noticeable by 'indirect detection' (I donno if is it that's you're meaning about). But when experiment carried in the train, we do our wave-particle experiment on these particles and found their respectively de-broglie wave respect to velocity adjust by experiment its own. Then, where are the missing de-broglie wave respact to the train?
 

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