Where did the 1/2 go in E=mc^2?

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    E=mc^2
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the equations for energy, specifically E=mc² and the kinetic energy formula K=1/2mv². Participants explore why the factor of 1/2 is absent in Einstein's equation and how the two equations relate to different contexts in physics, such as rest energy versus kinetic energy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that E=mc² represents the rest energy of a mass at rest, while K=1/2mv² applies to kinetic energy in classical mechanics.
  • Others argue that the absence of the 1/2 in E=mc² is due to the different contexts of the equations, with E=mc² being a result of special relativity.
  • A participant suggests that energy and momentum form a four-vector, and the relationship simplifies to E=mc² when momentum is zero.
  • Some participants discuss the implications of using geometric units, where c=1, and how this affects the relationship between energy and mass.
  • One participant mentions that the full relativistic energy equation includes corrections that relate to kinetic energy, suggesting that the 1/2 factor reappears in the context of moving objects.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of comparing the two equations directly due to their derivation from different principles.
  • Several participants reference external resources, such as videos and articles, to support their points about the derivation and understanding of these equations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the relationship between E=mc² and K=1/2mv². There is no consensus on how to reconcile the absence of the 1/2 in Einstein's equation with the kinetic energy formula, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the equations arise from different physical principles, with E=mc² relating to rest energy and K=1/2mv² to classical kinetic energy. The discussion also highlights the importance of relativistic corrections and the implications of using different units.

  • #121
DrGreg said:
The limit is effectively ##c \to \infty##, not ##c \to 0##, or, perhaps better, ##(v/c) \to 0##
Yes. I corrected it now.
 
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  • #122
If m is relativistic mass in the original post:
K and E are still not same quanities, beacuse ##E=m_{relativistic}*c^2## is rest energy plus kinetic energy and ##K=\frac{m_0*v^2}{2}## is kinetic energy.
 
  • #123
I suggested a while back that, of course, E=mc^2 is not an equation with 'c' as a variable, it is really a conversion factor. At least in the rest frame.

I have seen the following additional explanation, which describes the connection with Newtonian mechanics. If one writes the Lorenz factor as y = 1/SQRT(1-b^2), where b = v/c (sorry no latex) then the equation in special relativity, E = ymc^2, can be expanded as a Maclaurin series.

y = 1/SQRT(1-b^2) = 1 + 1/2.b^2 + 3/8.b^4 + 5/16.b^6 ... etc

As v (i.e. b) tends to small values then the end terms of the series vanish.

The first two terms of the expansion are then

E = mc^2 + 1/2.mv^2

which is therefore the Newtonian approximation for small v.

So I suppose an alternative answer for the OP is that the "1/2" can be made to "reappear" by a Maclaurin expansion of the Lorentz factor.
 
  • #124
cmb said:
So I suppose an alternative answer for the OP is that the "1/2" can be made to "reappear" by a Maclaurin expansion of the Lorentz factor.
This is a standard way of showing that the low speed limit of relativistic kinetic energy is Newtonian kinetic energy, yes.
 
  • #125
The kinetic energy of a particle can be expressed as ##\frac{\gamma^2}{\gamma+1}mv^2##. In the low speed limit ##\gamma \approx 1## so the fraction ##\frac{\gamma^2}{\gamma+1}\approx \frac{1}{2}##. So you can see that the ##\frac{1}{2}## didn't go anywhere. It's still there!
 

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