Where did they come from and when?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature and origin of fundamental fields in physics, such as electromagnetic and Higgs fields, and their influence on matter. Participants explore theoretical concepts, interactions between fields, and the implications of these ideas in the context of quantum field theory and cosmology.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that fundamental fields are responsible for forces and properties of matter, questioning how these fields influence matter.
  • Others argue that fields can interact with each other and that "matter" itself can be understood as fields, though the existence of fields remains a philosophical question.
  • A participant interprets the term "fundamental" to imply a lack of underlying causes, suggesting that understanding their origins would negate their fundamental status.
  • One participant elaborates on the relationship between fields and particles, stating that particles are local observables of fields and discussing the role of the vacuum in their existence.
  • There is mention of quantum vacuum fluctuations and their role in particle creation, particularly in the context of cosmological events like the Big Bang and inflationary expansion.
  • Some participants reference the operational definitions of particles and the challenges of reconciling classical and quantum views of particles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a variety of views on the nature of fields and particles, with no consensus reached on their origins or the implications of these concepts. Multiple competing perspectives remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the mathematical foundations of quantum field theory and the dependence on definitions of fields and particles. The discussion also reflects unresolved questions about the nature of vacuum fluctuations and their implications for particle production.

Pseudo Epsilon
Messages
103
Reaction score
0
correct me if I am wrong but there are fundamental fields that are responsible for the forces and properties. A) how do these fields (em, higgs ect.) influence matter? B) where did they come from and when? Thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Fields can interact with each other. The interaction can be described with quantum field theory, and "matter" are just fields as well. Physics cannot answer if or why there are "really" fields, or why this description is so successful.
 
I interpret calling something "fundamental" as the same as saying we either don't know of or there is no underlying cause. The minute we know "where" they come from or "how" they come about is the minute they are no longer fundamental.
 
Big, big questions!

A)
how do these fields (em, higgs ect.) influence matter?

Some brief comments for perspective:
[explanations and details for boldfaced terms can be found in Wikipedia]

The fields ARE matter: That is field quanta are particles! Particles are the local observables of fields.
Higgs imparts some mass to matter particles, but there is considerably more mass/energy as well. Fields are a model. Nobody has ever detected a field. Fields are extended versions of the particles we detect locally.
I don't know the mathematics of QM enough to understand precisely how fields and particles originate mathematically. But creation and annihilation operators play a part.
But fields and particles ultimately arise, I think from the vacuum...which is observer dependent.
The perturbative vacuum is the true ground state of a system. It contains only virtual particles...which are not observable. Typically a non-perturbative vacuum exhibits observable particles. For example in QCD, the strong force of the Standard Model of Particle Physics, the 'vacuum' 'contains quark-antiquark pairs'. A prior post from these forums I like:

We observe “ticks in detectors” not [necessarily] as 'particles', not as 'fields'. Such ticks are caused by some property of the object observed, such as charge, momentum or position. Are these a property of a field or of a particle? The ticks do not answer these question; An answer depends on the physical theory you are using to interpret the ticks.
Carlo Rovelli: “…we observe that if the mathematical definition of a particle appears somewhat problematic, its operational definition is clear: particles are the objects revealed by detectors, tracks in bubble chambers, or discharges of a photomultiplier…”

A particle is in some sense the smallest volume/unit in which the field or action of interest can operate….Most discussions regarding particles are contaminated with classical ideas of particles and how to rescue these ideas on the quantum level. Unfortunately this is hopeless.

More from Rovelli:

. A particle detector measures a local observable field quantity (for instance the energy of the field, or of a field component, in some region). This observable quantity is represented by an operator that in general has discrete spectrum. The particles observed by the detector are the quanta of this local operator.
B)
where did they come from and when?
Everything around us came from the big bang or it's remnants.


I saved this from another discussion...maybe Wikipedia is the source

. In the quantum field theory view, "real particles" are viewed as being detectable excitations of underlying quantum fields. As such, virtual particles are also excitations of the underlying fields, but are detectable only as forces but not particles. They are "temporary" in the sense that they appear in calculations, but are not detected as single particles.

I can provide you a rough sense of the origin of fields/and particles insofar as it it understood via cosmology:...Gravitational fluctuations in accelerated expansion is what gives rise to the primordial perturbations. We observe remnant fluctuations today via cosmic microwave background radiation variations.

Quantum vacuum fluctuations in the inflationary vacuum become quanta [particles] at super horizon inflationary scales. It turns out that geometric circumstances can create real particles such as Hawking radiation at black hole horizons and Unruh radiation caused by acceleration or felt by an accelerated observer. It seems that expansion of geometry itself, especially inflation, can produce particles. A dynamic and changing spacetime leads to event horizons and these quantize field perturbations resulting in particle production.
[What a crazy way to start a universe!]

Many of the above ideas come from this discussion:

Particle creation in an accelerating Universe?
https://www.physicsforums.com/showt...ight=Particle+creation+accelerating+Universe?
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
3K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 134 ·
5
Replies
134
Views
12K