Where Has All the Energy Gone? The Mystery of Big Bang and Dark Energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of energy produced by the Big Bang, its conservation, and the roles of dark matter and dark energy in the universe. Participants explore theoretical implications and the current understanding of these concepts, touching on cosmology and particle physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that all energy from the Big Bang should still exist in some form, including regular matter and radiation.
  • Others argue that dark matter and dark energy account for the remainder of the universe's energy, but their true nature remains poorly understood.
  • One participant questions the application of the law of energy conservation in an expanding universe, suggesting it does not hold.
  • Concerns are raised about the predominance of dark energy and matter, with questions about the expected balance of particles and antiparticles.
  • There is a discussion about the excess of ordinary matter over antimatter produced in the Big Bang, which remains an unsolved mystery.
  • Some participants express appreciation for the honesty in acknowledging the limits of current scientific understanding.
  • Debates arise regarding the reliability of best-fit models in science, with some emphasizing the need for logical consistency in models.
  • One participant highlights the challenges of model fitting, noting that adding parameters can improve fit without ensuring realism.
  • There is mention of the Higgs boson as an example of a theoretical particle that was confirmed through observation, contrasting it with dark matter and energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement, particularly regarding the implications of energy conservation in an expanding universe and the understanding of dark matter and dark energy. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on these topics.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations in current models and the challenges in balancing model fit with logical consistency. There are unresolved questions about the nature of dark matter and dark energy and the implications of particle-antiparticle relationships.

ChrisisC
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Is all of the energy produced by the big bang still around? According to the law of energy conservation it should be right? is it all packed into regular matter? what kind of role does dark energy have to do with this?
 
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Yes all the energy present at the big bang should still be in the Universe in some form or another.
Some of it is in the form of regular matter (and radiation).
Dark matter and dark energy represent the rest of it, but we are still a long way from understanding what those are.
 
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There are various versions of this chart around..

planck.jpg
 
ChrisisC said:
According to the law of energy conservation it should be right?

That doesn't work in an expanding univers.
 
Well based on this picture, why is most of the energy and matter in the universe dark? if there is a antiparticle or each regular particle and some particles are their own antiparticles, should there be a even number?
 
Antimatter still is 'ordinary' matter, not dark matter, but the particles have opposite charges.
If matter and antimatter meet they should annihilate each other leaving nothing but radiation.
Dark matter on the other hand does not interact with ordinary matter, except through gravity.
The big puzzle here is why the big bang could produce an excess of the ordinary matter which the world is eventually made of,
and less of it's antimatter equivalent.
 
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ChrisisC said:
Well based on this picture, why is most of the energy and matter in the universe dark? if there is a antiparticle or each regular particle and some particles are their own antiparticles, should there be a even number?

That is one of the great unsolved mysteries in cosmology and particle physics. We simply don't know.
 
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ChrisisC said:
Is all of the energy produced by the big bang still around? According to the law of energy conservation it should be right? is it all packed into regular matter? what kind of role does dark energy have to do with this?
Energy isn't conserved in an expanding universe.

See here for one explanation:
http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2010/02/22/energy-is-not-conserved/
 
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Drakkith said:
That is one of the great unsolved mysteries in cosmology and particle physics. We simply don't know.
Appreciate your honesty. I find some scientists have a difficult time admitting they don't really know.
 
  • #10
rootone said:
Yes all the energy present at the big bang should still be in the Universe in some form or another.
Some of it is in the form of regular matter (and radiation).
Dark matter and dark energy represent the rest of it, but we are still a long way from understanding what those are.
Love your honesty and humility!
 
  • #11
K. Doc Holiday said:
Appreciate your honesty. I find some scientists have a difficult time admitting they don't really know.
That's usually not a problem you find among scientists. Scientists spend a lot of time examining precisely how much we do and do not know. If anything, scientists tend to be more tentative about expressing certainty than they need to be.
 
  • #12
We rely on best fit models, unfortunately, best fit does not always mean best sense. Get used to it.
 
  • #13
K. Doc Holiday said:
Appreciate your honesty. I find some scientists have a difficult time admitting they don't really know.
I tend to not believe that, most scientists are much more careful about saying what they do know. Theory either fits observation or it doesn't, or one of them doesn't exist yet. The term "dark" means we don't know.

The Higgs boson is a good example. It was always called a theoretical particle until it was found, even though most scientists believed it was there. All the calculations required it. That wasn't like dark matter. Dark energy and matter came from observations.

Science IS the boundary between what's known and what isn't.
 
  • #14
Chronos said:
We rely on best fit models, unfortunately, best fit does not always mean best sense. Get used to it.
Pedantic rant:

It's actually not the best-fit models, for the simple reason that it is always possible to add parameters to a model to improve the fit, even if those parameters aren't realistic. There is a balance between goodness-of-fit and the number of parameters in the model (there may also be other considerations that are relevant as well, such as whether the model is mathematically sound). Unfortunately, there's no unambiguous way to strike that balance. So physicists usually try to err on the side of caution and require large amounts of evidence before saying that one model is clearly superior to another.
 
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  • #15
True, it's coming up with those parameters that takes genius. Sometimes they're really weird, like the concept that space itself bends or that energy is quantized.
 
  • #16
Chalnoth, it's unclear if you are opposing logic, best fits, or both? My point is logical models are not always best fits, but, best fit models are not always logical. Science generally demands any model be logically consistent.
 
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