Which angle do I need for the torque?

6 replies · 3K views · last reply
PhizKid
Messages
477
Reaction score
2

Homework Statement


Diagram of a sign hung from a wall by a horizontal rod and a diagonal cable, with a hinge at the wall; labels include d_v, d_h, L, Rod, Cable, Hinge and angle theta, with red hand-drawn marks showing a perpendicular line and angles at the hinge.


Which angle is relevant to the torque of the cable with the hinge as the axis of rotation? Where is the radius used in the Torque equation?


Homework Equations


Torque = Force * radius


The Attempt at a Solution


I don't know which one to use, they are both angles created by the axis and the cable. And as for the radius, I think it is the red line I drew perpendicular to the cable.
 
Last edited:
The torque of the cable on the rod will be equal to the tension in the cable times the sine of [itex]\varphi[/itex] times dh
 
sine is opposite over hypotenuse so I get:

Diagram of a sign hung from a wall by a horizontal rod hinged at the wall and a diagonal cable running from the wall to the sign's upper right corner. Labels include Hinge, Rod, Cable, angle θ, distances d_v, d_h and L, and a handwritten sin φ = x / d_v.


Bu we don't know what 'x' is. How do you solve for it in terms of d_v or d_h or L?
 
Since phi and theta add up to a right angle you can use either one, provided you use it in the right way.
In the diagram, you know dh and dv, so you can compute the hypoteneuse. You just need to find the length of the red line. Can you spot some similar triangles?
 
I'm not good with finding similar triangles. I can't see any here no matter how I look at it. But is the perpendicular line I drew a bisector of the cable length?
 
PhizKid said:
I'm not good with finding similar triangles. I can't see any here no matter how I look at it. But is the perpendicular line I drew a bisector of the cable length?
No.
All you need for two triangles to be similar is two angles that match. Often, one of those angles doesn't merely match in size, it is actually the same angle in the picture.
In the present case, all you have are right angles, the angle the cable makes to the vertical, and simple sums and differences of those.
 
Assuming you know dv and dh, use triangle ABC to find angle θ1 or θ2. Then you can use a smaller triangle to find the lever arm for the tension.
[EDIT: This is just a suggestion if you are having trouble seeing haruspex's similar triangles. I'm not saying that my suggestion is a better approach.]
 
Attachments
  • Diagram of a hinged rod CB held horizontal against a wall by a cable AB, with vertical distance dv from A to the hinge C and horizontal distance dh; L marks the rod length and a dentist sign sits beneath the rod.
    Torque problem.jpg
    20.2 KB · Views: 494
Last edited: