Which Bread Reigns Supreme: Dark Rye Sourdough, Focaccia, Banana, or Seeded?

[vela]

I'm not saying there isn't a place for bread with a sour tang. I was just pointing out sourdough isn't equivalent to sour bread. You can make good sourdough that has a pleasant sour tang, but you can also make quite tasty sourdough bread that isn't sour.

 

[sophiecentaur]

You can make sourdough that isn't sour.

Wow. How do you do that? I'm not sure of an advantage to using the wild microbes - except to say you can do it (which is not a bad thing, actually).

It requires sourdough bread. These white limb slices you call bread are at most suited for jam.

I already used the term "false dichotomy" this weekend. I agree that there are alternative breads that are a lot better than the "white limb slices" you refer to but they don't all involve wholemeal flour.

Fresh, home baked bread is such heavenly stuff.

 

[fresh_42]

Fresh, home baked bread is such heavenly stuff.

Fresh from the oven is always best!

I looked it up for this thread. We have 3,000+ sorts of bread here. It really depends on what you want to eat it with. The standard bread is rye-wheat mixed, peeled corn; I prefer rye-sourdough bread.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Fresh from the oven is always best!

Difficult to cut until it's cooled down to near room temperature. But tearing a bit off can be a temptation.

It really depends on what you want to eat it with.

You're probably right but, with only two of us. A loaf won't be eaten in one meal so we usually need an all purpose bread. Seeded makes a nice change and half and half rye and wheat is nice.
Bread's a lot like home brew in that the stuff you make yourself tends to be your favourite and you can get into a rut. (Allowed when you reach my age, young man.)

 

[vela]

Wow. How do you do that? I'm not sure of an advantage to using the wild microbes - except to say you can do it (which is not a bad thing, actually).

It comes down to controlling the dough's fermentation. As a dough ferments, its flavor develops, but the bacteria in the dough are simultaneously producing acids increasing its sourness. You're looking to strike the right balance.

I make La Brea Bakery's country white loaf. Nancy Silverton describes how to make it in her book Breads from the La Brea Bakery. I didn't make a starter the way she instructs, which is an incredible waste of flour. I use my usual 50-50 starter and adjust the amounts of flour and water for the dough.

 

[geordief]

What is it with people and Sourdough?

Have made my own bread fairly continuously for some 50 years.

True, making sourdough bread seems a lot of hassle but I respect the bakers who put out good sourdough bread even if my own attempts have never managed to equal what is ,in my eyes a very superior product.

I am happy with my own product (not normally sourdough) but happy to acknowledge the superiority of that of others

Am still baffled as to how they achieve it** as this excellence is fairly widespread but any fresh bread is normally pretty good no matter how it is done.

** have had many stabs at it over the years

 

[fresh_42]

Btw., did anybody ever realize that - with the exception of places where it isn't possible (polar regions, Australia, very high mountains) - we as a species always primarily cultivated and ate grass? Grain (Europe, Africa), rice (Asia), corn (Americas). All are sweet grasses. Bread and beers rule the world.

 

[sophiecentaur]

any fresh bread is normally pretty good no matter how it is done.

To right! Once you get it to rise and cook it roughly right (+/-), it's satisfying for a beginner.

happy to acknowledge the superiority of that of others

I'd like to come across an example of that. The sourdough I have bought has never impressed me and (worse than that) the sourdough that I have been given when eating out has not been special. The stuff they give you when you first sit down would, I'd hope, be selected to impress.

Chunks of good French Baguette or Pain (in rural France), on the other hand are an experience to die for. (My efforts are pathetic except when they have just come out of the oven.)

continuously for some 50 years.

Respect!
My experience is not much more than 30 years. I am getting there though.

 

[ergospherical]

Btw., did anybody ever realize that - with the exception of places where it isn't possible (polar regions, Australia, very high mountains) - we as a species always primarily cultivated and ate grass? Grain (Europe, Africa), rice (Asia), corn (Americas). All are sweet grasses. Bread and beers rule the world.

The ancient Egyptians even used tiny scraps of crusty, yeast-rich bread to make beer, by sieving it into heated vats and then leaving it to ferment.

 

[sophiecentaur]

The ancient Egyptians even used tiny scraps of crusty, yeast-rich bread to make beer, by sieving it into heated vats and then leaving it to ferment.

Alcohol has been used in Western Cultures for millennia to suppress bacteria. I understand that boiling water for tea making etc. was a common solution in the East.
It's a pity that modern brewing has allowed the production of increasingly strong beers and wines. So much so that high alcohol level has become synonymous with 'good' for beers and wines. The really classy 3% locally produced beers of the past are not worth producing these days; they require more skill and experience than the 5.5%+ that 'real men' want to drink.

 

[geordief]

I'd like to come across an example of that. The sourdough I have bought has never impressed me and (worse than that) the sourdough that I have been given when eating out has not been special. The stuff they give you when you first sit down would, I'd hope, be selected to impress.

Chunks of good French Baguette or Pain (in rural France), on the other hand are an experience to die for. (My efforts are pathetic except when they have just come out of the oven.)

That would also be my criterion but generally when I do (rarely) buy a loaf it passes with flying colours.

I would normally buy from a delicatessen of some stripe .

I hardly ever eat out in restaurants or hotels.

 

[sophiecentaur]

when I do (rarely) buy a loaf it passes with flying colours.

For me, that has only ever applied in France. The British version - even when it sports a French tricolour on the label - is close but no cigar.

I hardly ever eat out in restaurants or hotels.

Same for us. We are semi-rural in Essex and it's a trek to get anywhere apart from the two local eateries which are very nice but pricy.

I wish we could find a decent local delicatessen but they only succeed in places with enough population to support them. (Herne Hill and Dulwich, with loads of rich residents; my son appreciates it there)

 

[fresh_42]

The ancient Egyptians even used tiny scraps of crusty, yeast-rich bread to make beer, by sieving it into heated vats and then leaving it to ferment.

Whenever I see or read something about colonizing Mars and it is discussed what has to be done first, I cannot but think: "They will brew beer. Somehow, but definitely."

On my search for the number of different bread we have in Germany, I also looked at the number of breweries for comparison. That gave an interesting fact: Number one in Europe is Great Britain with about 2,000 breweries, followed by France with about 1,600 and then Germany with 1,500+. Isn't it strange that it is us who are associated with beer?

 

[ergospherical]

On my search for the number of different bread we have in Germany, I also looked at the number of breweries for comparison. That gave an interesting fact: Number one in Europe is Great Britain with about 2,000 breweries, followed by France with about 1,600 and then Germany with 1,500+. Isn't it strange that it is us who are associated with beer?

To some degree I'm not even surprised, given the popularity of craft ("hipster") beers with all these crazy, fruity hops (no doubt influenced by the USA...).

 

[jtbell]

Dark, rye sourdough?

Because of my Finnish-American heritage, I know this as ruisleipä and have considered it as characteristically Finnish. It's very common in Finland.

https://www.nordickitchenstories.co.uk/2021/02/24/finnish-sourdough-rye-ruisleipa-recipe/

Is it common in other cultures?

I made it a few times when I was a graduate student a long time ago. Now that you've got me thinking about it, maybe I'll try it again.

 

[fresh_42]

Because of my Finnish-American heritage, I know this as ruisleipä and have considered it as characteristically Finnish. It's very common in Finland.

https://www.nordickitchenstories.co.uk/2021/02/24/finnish-sourdough-rye-ruisleipa-recipe/

Is it common in other cultures?

I made it a few times when I was a graduate student a long time ago. Now that you've got me thinking about it, maybe I'll try it again.

Yes. My standard choice.

 

[Jarvis323]

To some degree I'm not even surprised, given the popularity of craft ("hipster") beers with all these crazy, fruity hops (no doubt influenced by the USA...).

I agree. Why do we need fruity hops. Just add fruit to the beer.

 

[fresh_42]

To some degree I'm not even surprised, given the popularity of craft ("hipster") beers with all these crazy, fruity hops (no doubt influenced by the USA...).

German consumers still stick to the oldest food law we have (1516). It is only allowed (maybe EU regulations changed this, but it doesn't matter, people won't buy others) to use water, barley, hops, and yeast. That's it.

 

[Twigg]

My favorite is tiroler schwarzbrot ("Tyrolean blackbread" is the literal translation). It's a rye sourdough mix, very filling! It could be my imagination, but I feel like the best rye breads are noticeably heavier. I could just be crazy though.

If I could go back in time and do some things over, I would've spent less time solving differential equations and more time learning how to make delicious bread

 

[gmax137]

I agree. Why do we need fruity hops. Just add fruit to the beer.

View attachment 292350

ugh... A friend had something like that at his place. I told him "I like beer flavored beer."

 

[fresh_42]

ugh... A friend had something like that at his place. I told him "I like beer flavored beer."

To aromatize beer is like flavoring tea, or to sell coffee as the always same mixture of many. It is far more exciting to taste the difference between a Darjeeling and an Assam than drinking always the same Earl Grey mixture, or even some tea dust aromatized with oranges! The same is true for coffee.

 

[Jarvis323]

ugh... A friend had something like that at his place. I told him "I like beer flavored beer."

I was attempting to be humorous.

I don't mind some of the new style IPAs that use simcoe hops though. They are a little bit less bitter and have a little bit of a citrus flavor. I think they're actually still legal in Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hop_varieties

Ironically, it was that company, Ballast Point, that seems to have started the fruity hops beer craze.

https://www.hopculture.com/ballast-point-celebrates-25th-anniversary/

 

[Haborix]

A lot of times bread is a vehicle for butter in my book. But I can eat focaccia in any form---so good. Some flaky salt on top, yum. I guess focaccia is like brioche (my earlier choice in this thread), except instead of tons of butter incorporated it is olive oil.

 

[Bandersnatch]

I'm glad the discussion is steering away from boring bread and towards liquid bread. Myself, I'm partial to amber ale.

 

[fresh_42]

I'm glad the discussion is steering away from boring bread and towards liquid bread. Myself, I'm partial to amber ale.

And I am with John Cleese.

 

[PeroK]

I have a personal objective to try to learn to like peanut butter, so that I have a good alternative to my cheese sandwich when I'm out hill-walking.

Yesterday marked perhaps the end of an era. After 29 years of eating almost exclusively cheese sandwiches in the hills I finally tried peanut butter, which went down rather well in cold, blustery conditions on the northern Carneddau (hills in North Wales). I ate three well-filled slices of bread (Hovis Seven Seeds) and also had a hot-cross bun (no longer only an Easter delicacy) and five pieces of cake. Plus 330ml of orange Lucozade and a litre of water.

The imminent Scottish winter conditions will be the real test.

 

[WWGD]

Those do irritate me... sandwiches should be rectangular :)

I think my favourite three are probably:
- farmhouse loaf; hearty, traditional & nice with scrambled eggs
- sourdough; somewhat more nutritious and packs a bit more flavour than regular bread. However, it is a little more dense, so one cannot have too much of it.
- naan bread; no Indian take-away would be complete without it.

On the flip-side, I really can't stand the texture of seeded bread - which is a shame, because I do rather like the whole-grain/darker breads (which are the ones that are often filled with seeds).

Hypotenuse of triangle maximises surface of sandwich available to mouth. Edit: So that cutting sandwich along hypothenuse is better in that regard. Easier to sink into the sandwich.

 

[Astronuc]

I agree. Why do we need fruity hops. Just add fruit to the beer.

I have a friend and colleague who loves Sculpin and similar hoppy beers, the hoppier the better.

I, on the other hand, prefer porters and stouts, and the stoutier, the better. I've developed a taste of Imperial Stouts aged in bourbon or whiskey barrels. My favorites are: Deschutes Brewery, The Abyss, preferably on nitro; Full Sail, Imperial Stout aged in a bourbon barrel; Boulevard Imperial Stout aged in a bourbon barrel.

They go well with dark rye bread, Camembert cheese and game meat (elk or moose).

 

[WWGD]

I have a friend and colleague who loves Sculpin and similar hoppy beers, the hoppier the better.

I, on the other hand, prefer porters and stouts, and the stoutier, the better. I've developed a taste of Imperial Stouts aged in bourbon or whiskey barrels. My favorites are: Deschutes Brewery, The Abyss, preferably on nitro; Full Sail, Imperial Stout aged in a bourbon barrel; Boulevard Imperial Stout aged in a bourbon barrel.

They go well with dark rye bread, Camembert cheese and game meat (elk or moose).

Didn't they have a song about that: " Stout, stout, let it all out"?

 

[fresh_42]

I have a friend and colleague who loves Sculpin and similar hoppy beers, the hoppier the better.