Who Should the Democrats choose in '08?

  • News
  • Thread starter wasteofo2
  • Start date

Who should the Democrats choose in '08


  • Total voters
    18
  • #26
SOS2008
Gold Member
24
1
Okay, I went to the web site and realized I should say click on CHAPTER FIVE
"Give Us What We Want" -- Political consultant Frank Luntz has built his career on a simple idea: It doesn't matter what you want to tell the public -- it's about what they want to hear. This focused on recent trends of political campaigns in America...
 
  • #27
1,841
209
wasteofo2 said:
Similarly, who's to say that people aren't adressing the reasons that the Democrats had failed?
Me, and independant voter who voted for both democrats and republicans in the last election - but fewer democrats, and fewer than ever before. Of course, I have never voted for either a democrat or a republican for president, but I'd love to get the chance. How is it you'd like me to make my case? Is it in my place to show that they aren't, or is it someone else's place to correct me and show that they are?

I just checked the dnc website. The platform is old, from the election. It takes twenty four pages before they make any kind of moral argument for anything. Weak. You say they're changing. That's nice, but I'm not convinced, and I see no reason why anyone else should be.
 
  • #28
1,841
209
SOS2008 said:
I'm not so sure it's about change, but rather leveraging (marketing) the "moral metaphors." Which means understanding your audience (the three 's' - shallow, simple, and superficial), demographics (think Karl Rove), understanding all is fair in love, war, AND politics--target opponents with lies, tamper with the electoral process (confusing ballots, miscounts, "wedge" issue propositions, etc.), redistrict, what ever it takes (but be quiet and sneaky about it).
No, those would not be effective changes.
 
  • #29
SOS2008
Gold Member
24
1
Locrian said:
Who cares if its changing, if it's not addressing the reasons it has failed? As long as it fails to realize its moral foundation, create strong moral metaphors, and use those metaphors effectively, it will keep losing voters.

About the only thing the democratic party had in 2004 was an anti-bush policy. It didn't work, and they are left in a worse position now than they were then. I see no evidence of a come back.
Though I feel there is an unfortunate confusion between "morals" (distinguishing between right and wrong) versus "religious values." I would like to know your definition of the Republican moral foundation and strong metaphors you feel the Democrats lack. And I notice you state they need to "use those metaphors effectively," which means better marketing, doesn't it?

Because as I've stated, Bush was reelected in part due to his stand against abortion and gay marriage, yet as I predicted before the election, he has abandoned the abortion cause. Nonetheless, the fundamentalists seem to be appeased enough with his statement against gay marriage in the State of the Union speech (big deal). I stand by the premise that it is all marketing and no substance, and is effective because the Republicans understand the masses are largely ignorant and can be easily duped.

If you want to talk about morals, like is it moral to preemptively attack countries contrary to international laws, is it moral to spend like crazy during times of high deficits, is it moral to ignore the labor force of America with trade pacts with China, amnesty for illegal immigrants, etc., is it moral to ignore the environment (global warming), etc. than I feel the Democrats have plenty of morals to go on. Does anyone deny they suck at strategy, organizing, marketing, etc.?

Ultimately I feel there needs to be several viable parties in this country to correct the current direction. For example, Arnold is not Republican, but there is no party he fits into (at least anyway, so far), and we could start a long list like this. Perhaps this should be the focus rather than trying to figure out how to save the Democratic party...?
 
  • #30
1,841
209
SOS2008 said:
Though I feel there is an unfortunate confusion between "morals" (distinguishing between right and wrong) versus "religious values."
I whole heartedly agree.

As for a listing of some of Republican's moral metaphors, Moral Strength is probably the best example. "Morale failure is personal failure" is another. Moral responsibility is a third. I've heard these used, and seen them implemented. The democratic party tried to steal some strength metaphors in the last election; as far as I can tell, it didn't work.

You ask if what I mean is their marketing. The answer is that this is what I said. I can only see evidence of marketing failures; I do not know any real mover in the dnc personally. However, I have come to suspect that it is not just a marketing failure, and that the dnc does not represent anything substantial except what the rnc isn't. Of course, it doesn't matter. They can have all the ideas they want. If they can't market them, they have no value whatsoever.

I'm disgusted with the populist losers that have been voted into office under the pretense that they are conservatives. I'm even more disgusted watching "capitalists" and people who support a "free nation" support them. I blame the current problems on the dnc's failure to produce a powerful central message, a viable platform, and a campaign to attract voters.
 
  • #31
466
2
Locrian said:
You say they're changing. That's nice, but I'm not convinced, and I see no reason why anyone else should be.
You're right, maybe my rosy predictions of competent Politicians who change when they fail is too optimistic, and maybe my faith in the Democratic Party is misplaced. We'll see whether or not they've really learned anything in the next cycle of elections.
 
  • #32
136
0
If Obama ran I would vote for him in a heartbeat (though I doubt he will in 08 because he won't have finished one term yet). I don't think I'll ever forget watching him speak during the DNC last summer when all of a sudden it struck me that this man is going to run for president someday and, all things being equal, should win. I still stand by that statement wholeheartedly.
 
  • #33
SOS2008
Gold Member
24
1
Andromeda321 said:
If Obama ran I would vote for him in a heartbeat (though I doubt he will in 08 because he won't have finished one term yet). I don't think I'll ever forget watching him speak during the DNC last summer when all of a sudden it struck me that this man is going to run for president someday and, all things being equal, should win. I still stand by that statement wholeheartedly.
Interesting how the First Lady is an important factor to Americans. Theresa was a liability for Kerry, while Laura has been a tremendous help to Bush. I've only seen a little of Obama's wife (sorry I don't know her name), but it struck me that she is a strong, independent woman the way Hillary was, and traditional Americans don't like that. I can guess traditional white males in the South won't like anything about it--sad but true. Let's just hope our country can progress in the years to come, and not keep slipping backward.

As for recovery of the Democrats, I feel they have already shown improvement. With regard to Social Security, they have been pretty united and have not only created healthy debate, but have taken initiative with the calculator, etc. If they can keep taking initiative (presenting their own plans, etc.) and not just being reactionary, especially in reference to matters that Bush has ignored (economy, environment/global warming, etc.), they can recover. They do need to get their base together via better grass-roots methods--you know, those people who forgot to vote because they were hiking, enjoying the arts, counting whales, etc.--goofy liberals.

So did we settle on Biden then? :rofl:
 
  • #34
SOS2008
Gold Member
24
1
Just saw this:

The Hearst Newspapers / Siena College National Poll: Do You Think the United States is Ready for a Woman President in 2008? - 62% say 'Yes" - Released 2/22/205
 
  • #35
Informal Logic
A closer look at the Hearst Newspaper/Siena College Poll shows 81% would vote for a woman for president, but:
53% say Hillary Clinton should run
42% say Condi Rice should run

The poll also included Barbara Boxer and Elizabeth Dole in the survey. However, of those who feel a woman should run, only 18% expect a woman to be on the Republican ticket for president, while 60% expect a woman to be on the Democratic ticket.

I voted for Evan Bayh - By far he has the best chance of beating Hillary. And he is everything Hillary is not: highly elect-able.
 
  • #36
selfAdjoint
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
Dearly Missed
6,786
7
I like Bayh (sounds good, doesn't it?) for two reasons. One, he was a successful Governer of a state with both farms and heavy industry, something no other recent dem candidate can match, and two, because my late wife baby sat him when she was in college.
 
  • #37
58
0
woah, can i have your signature if he becomes the president? a humble request..
 
  • #38
466
2
selfAdjoint said:
I like Bayh (sounds good, doesn't it?) for two reasons. One, he was a successful Governer of a state with both farms and heavy industry, something no other recent dem candidate can match, and two, because my late wife baby sat him when she was in college.
Can any CANDIDATE in general even be said to have been a SUCESSFUL governor? Clinton and Bush were both pretty big failures as far as governorship goes (we went from 49th to 48th, hurray!).
 
  • #39
SOS2008
Gold Member
24
1
The games are on! In a recent address to a Japanese audience, Bill Clinton endorsed Hillary (imagine that). And though I do not watch FOX News, I saw this on a pro-Bush site:

Friday, March 4, 2005 8:55 a.m. EST
McCain: Hillary Won't Be President
Prospective 2008 presidential candidate Sen. John McCain said Tuesday that he doubts Hillary Clinton can win enough votes nationwide to reclaim the White House in the next presidential race.

"I don't believe that Senator Clinton will be president of the United States," McCain told the Fox News Channel's "Hannity & Colmes."
 

Related Threads on Who Should the Democrats choose in '08?

Replies
64
Views
5K
Replies
25
Views
4K
Replies
17
Views
9K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • Last Post
2
Replies
30
Views
4K
  • Last Post
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • Last Post
Replies
10
Views
1K
  • Last Post
Replies
4
Views
1K
Top