Who Won: Bush or Castro? A Look at Their Impact on Society

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the impacts of George W. Bush and Fidel Castro on society, exploring their leadership styles, societal contributions, and the implications of their governance. Participants engage in a comparative analysis of their legacies, touching on themes of freedom, equality, and the socio-economic conditions in Cuba and the United States.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that Castro, despite his failings, prioritized societal welfare, while others contend that Bush's leadership is more detrimental.
  • There are claims that both leaders represent corrupt institutions and that neither can be deemed better than the other.
  • One participant suggests that many Cubans risk their lives to reach the U.S., implying dissatisfaction with life in Cuba.
  • Another viewpoint emphasizes that Cuba was worse before Castro, citing improvements in social conditions.
  • Some argue that freedom and equality are often in conflict, while others assert they are synonymous, leading to a debate about their definitions.
  • Participants discuss the implications of leadership styles, with some viewing Castro as a better leader due to his socialist policies, while others criticize both leaders for their authoritarian tendencies.
  • There are differing opinions on whether equality refers to status or opportunity, with some participants questioning the relationship between freedom and equality.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of competing views, with no consensus on whether Bush or Castro had a more positive impact on society. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the definitions and implications of freedom and equality.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various socio-political contexts and historical conditions, but there are unresolved assumptions about the definitions of freedom and equality, as well as the implications of leadership styles.

  • #31
Smurf said:
I don't know. I think it stands to reason that if people are unequal, someone will be less free. I think it's you who has the burden of proof to show that they're different or opposed to each other.

Smurf you TOTALLY ignored my post! I gave you a situation where your theory is totally bollocks..

Anttech said:
eh? So if everyone is free, then everyone will be equal?
This is in contridiction with Evolution.. The strongest, fittest and most well adapted survive..

So in a nongovermental raw animal situation like for example in the perhistoric man situation would you say everyone was equal although they were totally free from any outside influences that we today have? I would say nope

Freedom and equality are not the same thing, thus, there two totally different meanings in the English lang. One doesn't equate the other

Lets say I am 6"4 and you are 4"9 (being a smurf) and we are both free to fight each other. I am also a martial arts expert. We have a fight, I win you lose. This is because I am bigger than you, we are not equal in stature.

Even if you did define the premises for your statement, I doubt you would be able to make it any more true.
 
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  • #32
Ancient populations were not free from natural forces but they were completely free from man-made institutions such as capitalism and the state.
 
  • #33
X-43D said:
Ancient populations were not free from natural forces but they were completely free from man-made institutions such as capitalism and the state.

Well they were tribal from the git-go, so they had a form of state, not completely disentangled from religion. Saying these things are "man-made" begs the question of their non-evolutionary origin.
 
  • #34
Besides, it's hard to see what's "unnatural" about man-made institutions. Is man not a part of nature? It's also a little difficult to think of capitalism as a man-made institution. All it is is the lack of state regulation of commercial transactions, leaving all details to the privately negotiated contracts between buyer and seller. It's the items exchanged that are man-made.
 
  • #35
Anttech said:
Smurf you TOTALLY ignored my post! I gave you a situation where your theory is totally bollocks..



Freedom and equality are not the same thing, thus, there two totally different meanings in the English lang. One doesn't equate the other

Lets say I am 6"4 and you are 4"9 (being a smurf) and we are both free to fight each other. I am also a martial arts expert. We have a fight, I win you lose. This is because I am bigger than you, we are not equal in stature.

Even if you did define the premises for your statement, I doubt you would be able to make it any more true.
I didn't address your post, and I'm not going to now, because I have no idea what you're talking about.
 
  • #36
selfAdjoint said:
Well they were tribal from the git-go, so they had a form of state, not completely disentangled from religion. Saying these things are "man-made" begs the question of their non-evolutionary origin.

They were tribal or clanish but there were no laws which protected money ownership. There was no market system.
 
  • #37
Smurf said:
I didn't address your post, and I'm not going to now, because I have no idea what you're talking about.

Fair enough... I suppose it was extemly complex :-p
 

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