Why are virtual photons not observed in electromagnetic interactions?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of virtual photons in electromagnetic interactions, exploring why they are not observed directly. Participants examine concepts from non-relativistic quantum mechanics (NRQM) and quantum field theory (QFT), discussing the implications of energy and momentum conservation, as well as the role of uncertainty relations in these contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that virtual photons are not observed due to a deficit of energy, which is accommodated by the uncertainty relation, suggesting that true photons would emerge if the time interval is large enough.
  • Others argue that virtual photons are defined by their role in mediating interactions and do not appear on the external legs of Feynman diagrams, emphasizing that energy is conserved during their emission.
  • It is noted that both energy and momentum are conserved at the vertices of Feynman diagrams, and the time interval for virtual photon propagation is very small, which aligns with the uncertainty principle.
  • Some participants express confusion over the mixing of concepts from NRQM and QFT, particularly regarding the definition of "virtual" in these frameworks.
  • There is a discussion about whether interactions at macroscopic distances are mediated by virtual photons or classical electromagnetic fields, with some suggesting that this remains problematic.
  • One participant questions the relevance of tensions between different models, suggesting that the energy from the electromagnetic field allows for the existence of virtual particles over large distances.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; multiple competing views remain regarding the nature of virtual photons and their role in electromagnetic interactions, as well as the implications of mixing concepts from different theoretical frameworks.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions about the definitions and implications of virtual particles in different contexts, particularly concerning the assumptions underlying the uncertainty principle and its application to QFT.

Anamitra
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Virtual photons are not "observed" because they have a deficit of energy. When they are emitted from particles momentum is conserved but energy is not conserved. The deficit of energy is accommodated with the uncertainty relation:

delta_E * delta_t of the order of h_bar

Now if delta_t is large , [tex]\Delta[/tex]E becomes very small and the uncertainty in energy disappears and we should have "true photons". The "infinite range" of electromagnetic interaction lends support to this assertion. But an electromagnetic interaction is never accompanied by the mediation of true photons even when we consider charges at macroscopic distances.
 
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I'm not sure it's really helpful to let a theorem from NRQM interfere with the definition of a concept from field theory. (After all, how much more relativistic could you get?)

To my mind, a virtual photon isn't virtual because of some uncertainty in the energy. Virtual photons are those that mediate interactions, and don't appear on the external legs of Feynman diagrams. What makes them 'virtual' is that as you have to consider zero-, one-, two-, ..., n- loop processes, it's not possible to say that some definite number of photons actually exist.

Also, I believe I'm right in saying that actually energy *is* conserved when a particle emits a virtual photon. The reason virtual particles are "off-shell" -i.e. don't satisfy [tex]p^{\mu}p_{\mu}=m^2c^4[/tex] is precisely so that they can carry whatever energy and momentum are necessary to ensure momentum and energy conservation at each vertex of a Feynman diagram, forcing their mass into a particular "non-standard" value.
 
It is indeed true that both energy and momentum are conserved at the vertices of the Feynman-Diagrams. And the time interval of travel/propagation of the virtual photon is very small.If we apply the time-enery uncertainty relation there is no problem indeed.
Let us now consider a a pair of charges separated by a large macroscopic distance.

Is the process mediated by the exchange of the virtual electrons or the classical electromagnetic field?
In case the interaction is mediated by the virtual photons, it appears, there is some problem.
 
Anamitra said:
It is indeed true that both energy and momentum are conserved at the vertices of the Feynman-Diagrams. And the time interval of travel/propagation of the virtual photon is very small.If we apply the time-enery uncertainty relation there is no problem indeed.
Let us now consider a a pair of charges separated by a large macroscopic distance.

Is the process mediated by the exchange of the virtual electrons or the classical electromagnetic field?
In case the interaction is mediated by the virtual photons, it appears, there is some problem.
That's why I never really understood how the notion of "virtual" from nonrelativistic QM (energy-time uncertainty) is often mixed up with the notion of "virtual" in QFT (intermediate off-shell states which appear in perturbation theory).
 
Anamitra said:
In case the interaction is mediated by the virtual photons, it appears, there is some problem.

I really don't think there is. I don't understand why
1)You care about a supposed tension between different models of a process, one of which is obviously a better model than the other one. Like I said,
muppet said:
I'm not sure it's really helpful to let a theorem from NRQM interfere with the definition of a concept from field theory. (After all, how much more relativistic could you get?)

2)that even if we make allowances for a dodgy hand-waving semiclassical treatment within the framework of ordinary QM, you care about the fact that [tex]\Delta E[/tex] isn't huge. So what? These arguments are usually to justify the idea of pair production in the context of vacuum fluctuations without going into the full machinery of field theory. In that case, it's only the uncertainty in energy that allows the particles to exist, and the mass of the particle puts a lower bound on [tex]\Delta E[/tex]. Here the it's the energy from the EM field that gives rise to their existence, and over macroscopic distance scales this approximation turns out to be better. Is that so disturbing? :-p

haushofer said:
That's why I never really understood how the notion of "virtual" from nonrelativistic QM (energy-time uncertainty) is often mixed up with the notion of "virtual" in QFT (intermediate off-shell states which appear in perturbation theory).
I think it's because students are introduced to the idea of photons long before they're introduced to field theory. For example, I don't know where you're from but the photoelectric effect is on A-level syllabuses in England, wheras I didn't do any field theory until my fourth year of university. The concepts of pair production etc. 'leak out' of their proper context (because they're interesting, and occasionally pedagogically useful), and the uncertainty principle + mass-energy relation trick is the easiest way of making the fix sound plausible. Even in an introductory QFT course (see e.g. Zee's text) it's a common way of introducing the idea that the union of QM and special relativity necessitates variable numbers of particles.
 

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