Why are you allowed to do this?

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  • Thread starter Thread starter motornoob101
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the mathematical principles of canceling terms in equations, specifically addressing when it is permissible to cancel variables that may equal zero. Participants explore examples involving trigonometric functions and the implications of division by zero in the context of finding solutions to equations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of canceling terms in the equation rcosθ = -r²sin²θ and suggests that it is permissible if r is assumed to be nonzero.
  • Another participant agrees that division by an expression that may be zero is not allowed and emphasizes that canceling is a form of division.
  • A different participant points out that both examples of canceling could be considered illegal unless it is known that the variable is nonzero.
  • One participant provides a quadratic equation derived from the original example, illustrating the mathematical manipulation involved.
  • Another participant notes that canceling with r results in losing the solution r = 0, similar to losing solutions when dividing by sinθ.
  • A participant corrects a spelling error in the discussion, highlighting a personal preference for accuracy in language.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the principle that division by zero is not allowed, but there is some disagreement regarding the legality of canceling terms in specific examples, particularly when the status of the variable (zero or nonzero) is not clearly established.

Contextual Notes

The discussion does not resolve the nuances of when canceling is appropriate, as it depends on the assumptions made about the variables involved.

motornoob101
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So if I have something like this..

[tex]rcos\theta =-r^{2}sin^{2}\theta[/tex]

I can cancel out one of the r to get

[tex]cos\theta = rsin^{2}\theta[/tex]

but how come when you have something like..

[tex]sin^2\theta = sin\theta[/tex]

and say you are trying to find the zeros of this equation, you can't just do

[tex]sin\theta = 1[/tex]

Is it because in the first example, we assume that r never = 0 so you can cancel it out where as in the [tex]sin\theta[/tex] example, it could be 0? Thanks.
 
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You are right -- you can never divide by an expression that may be zero, and cancelling is a form of division.

Incidentally, I would have said that both of those examples of cancelling are illegal. You can only do the first one if r is nonzero, but that is not generally true! It is, of course, legal whenever you do happen to know that r is nonzero -- for example, if you happen to split a problem into two cases, one where r is zero, and one where r is nonzero, then clearly in the second case, you'd be allowed to cancel an r.
 
Oh ok. Thanks for clearing that up! I forget that canceling is division! Silly me.
 
Thanks for the fun example, motonoob101. You will have a quadratic equation with variable of cosine of theta:

[tex]\[<br /> \begin{array}{l}<br /> r\,\cos \theta + r^2 \,\sin ^2 \theta = 0 \\ <br /> r\,\cos \theta + r^2 \,(1 - \cos ^2 \theta ) = 0 \\ <br /> r\,\cos \theta + r^2 - r^2 \,\cos ^2 \theta = 0 \\ <br /> r^2 \cos ^2 \theta - r\,\cos \theta - r^2 = 0 \\ <br /> OR \\ <br /> \cos ^2 \theta - \frac{1}{r}\cos \theta - 1 = 0 \\ <br /> \end{array}<br /> \][/tex]
 
also note that in you first example you "loose" a solution when deviding with r, namely r = 0, just like you loose solutions when deviding by sin in the second example.
 
"lose", not "loose".

(I don't know why that irks me so much more than other misspellings! Perhaps because "loose" is a perfectly good word, just the wrong one.)
 

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